Moves - Volume 3

[Beta]

E-mailed by Eli to the team:

An important thing that I want to add is that we shouldn’t attack Arashi this turn. I am 100% certain that they moved every Pikeman they could into it and that’s not a battle we can win. Let’s spread across the mountains adjacent to the city, maybe even send one or two immortals to the undefended Monsoon, this will force them to either lose monsoon or spread their forces.

At this point, I believe we don’t have the critical mass of Immortals needed to assault and conquer a city that is probably very well defended by Pikemen and stands on Hills.

The possible drawback in s that they might have build walls in Arashi by the time we decide to attack it.

[Beta]

E-mailed by Kon to the team:

As for the game itself, I had not time to look at it, but taking Arashi
might sound like a good idea. I think they have a fairly important military
force, but I don't think they rushed all they had there. I'm sure they sent
all the support they could in 1 turn, meaning we could take the city this
turn. But I don't think it is a wise idea, because of the counterattack by
GS chariots. I don't think the tradeoff is favorable to us. I am in favour
of stretching their forces by threatening Monsoon with a couple of
immortals, then attack the next turn.
I'm glad about RP support, I hope they send more than a galley with a
conscript warrior though...

--Kon--

[Beta]

OK- we have Eli and Kon both suggesting a delay of the attack on Arashi. I also suspect there is probably a catapult or two or three in there. The odds are a 4 attack against a 3 defense on a hill, in a town with walls, fortified. We may take it, but at what cost.

GoW has said they have landed their first horsemen.

RP says they will come with help. I am all for hitting GS hard, but they have probably guessed at our desire for an early victory, and we could lose a lot taking Arashi. So - I side with Eli and Kon.

We can move a sizeable force to the mountain tile SE of Arashi. Note that three of our units have taken hits - probably from chariots. If it was swordsmen - they are now dead. We did not lose any units in their attacks.

And the Immortals Tekoa, Lucca, and Fleka move back towards Monsoon.

I also think we should attack where it makes sense - maybe one of their swordsmen on the east coast. Only a DF of 2.

Also - notice their two galleys. I hope they are wasting money and production on trying to take out our iron. We will be waiting for them. But what do we do with our galley. We can move it south one or two tiles to insert the troops further in - but that exposes our galley. I suggest we drop them on the end mountain - and pull back 3 tiles. (remember that their galleys get a move of 4 with the lighthouse.) They will not be able to see or get at our galley that way.

Lots of warriors heading south for upgrades.

[Beta]

BTW - I am sitting on the save - given our inability to discuss our move until now. And this is probably the most crucial move in the game to-date.

[Wittlich]

GS probably has 3 catapults in the city - hense the damage sustained with 3 of our units...on a good note, once we have seized control of Arashi, we will gain at least 3 catapults.

[Eli]

3 Catapults is bad for assaulting.

Let's separate our major immortal force and send some of it S(I think) to that unroaded mount tile near Arashi.
Move the few immortals that arent adjacent to the city to the a tile that is adjacent(preferably mountain) and send couple spears towards Monsoon.
If they do nothing with Monsoon, the spears will take it. If they send troops there, the Spears will block their way forcing them to fight, which is also a good thing.

[Beta]

Some timely advice from Hot Enamel of GoW. It is better posted here. I think he is on the same wavelength that we are.

Goodluck with your War
Greetings Beta.

Just some thoughts on your war...(From your friendly GoW Neighbour)

1. GS had had plenty of time to get ready for your offensive. They have gone defensive, so dont be afraid to just pillage and make them come out and fight. They have the advantage inside their cities with Pikes. You have the advantage outside.

2. Pillage roads on the mountains...their war chariots will no longer be able to pass or attack you.

3. From all of their undefended cities that we can see ...they have rushed everything to meet you. Dont be afraid to drive in past their defended cities and choose a softer target...pillaging as you go.

Basically...Make them come out, and while they leave their Pikes in their cities, you can destroy their improvements...separate cities, so they cant move units between them. Then attack the weaker cities.

Good Luck.

[Beta]

Also posted this in the GoW thread - regarding where GoW landed. I think you can tell from the map they sent where they landed. But it is key info - as it will dictate whether we should take a few more chances this turn.

In other words - if they have GoW horsemen to worry about as well, I suggest we move down into the flats to break the road tile joinging Arashi to the capitol, and that the three Immortals further back in the mountians move down onto the flats next to Monsoon.

[Eli]

the three Immortals further back in the mountians move down onto the flats next to Monsoon.

Overkill. Monsoon is of no strategic importance to us.
I think we should send a spearman or two, and that will be more than enough.

Of all things the city can be, the best for us is to threaten it and thus cause them to spread forces. It will do more good than conquering or razing it.

[Eli]

I would also like to stress the need for a creative solution to the Horses problem. A 2-3 fast moving units could be invaluable for us at this point.

On the Eastern front i'm undecided concerning the Galley. But whether to attack with the Immortals or not... it's an interesting question.
We shouldnt try to break through the tile protected by a Pikeman* until the other Immortals have arrived, that's for sure.
But what about the stack SW of our Immortals? I would definitely be in favor of attacking them and strengthening the need for GS to spread the forces across the two fronts, but can we win the battle? It's 4 vs 4, so everything lies in the hands of the random factor.
Maybe we should try to attack with the veteran immortal and decide on whether to attack with the regular one while chatting, or maybe, to avoid a chat, to plan for all contingencies now?

For example :
If the vet Immortal loses, attack with the regular because... Or dont attack because...
If he wins... Attack with the regular because... or dont attack because...?

Overall, I support having both of the Immortals attacking that SW stack. Although having radical result in the first battle might cause us to reconsider the second?
Damn... We really need to figure out how this random factor works, whether it has tendencies to work in series, for example, a win after win after win and then couple loses. Or maybe it's truly random(as much as a computer can be), or random but remembers some past results and compensates for them, like giving a bad factor immediately after an exceptionaly good one, or vice versa?

On the west I think we should move the spearman SW and one Immortal W to accompany him.
The other two should move south to the tile where the main stack is.
And the stack should move(in it's entirety?) South.

* Maybe even more then one? Since one of the units there is a Swordsman for sure(civilopedia links) and it's either Zonk or Gronk, it is safe to assume, due to the name similarity, that both of them are Swordsmen, but that's not certain.
We should think a bit about this whole concept of deception through unit names.

[Beta]

Eli. Thank-you!!!

Great notes. Now that I think about it - I agree with your overkill suggestion. But do you think it is a good idea to move down to the flats.

Ditto for the road and irrigated tile east of the mountains - which should disconnect the three cities from the capitol - including the luxury. It will expose units to chariot attacks - but then it will be a case of too many targets. Units east and west of the mountains plus the GoW horsemen.

I agree with the other moves - plus we should destroy the road on the mountain to avoid chariot attacks.

On the east coast - I agree with the strategy of attacking the swordsmen. Let's keep the pressure on - and hopefully destroy unit(s). I suggest we start with the veteran Immortal - and if he is unsuccesful - call it a day. If he is successful - well then let's see how brave we or I feel.

I think we should drop the immrtals in theh galley where they are now and pull our galley back out of range. It is more valuable to us as a transport than as an instrument of naval superiority. If GS wants to build galleys - hurray! Less units.

Thanks again Eli. Others?

[Wittlich]

I posted my two cents worth in Jon's "Thoughts of War" thread.

[Beta]

630BC played - finally. Sorry for the delay guys. I was trying to get as much input as possible before playing. And, here's what happened:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/BetaHound/Vox-630bc-north.JPG

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/BetaHound/Vox-630bc-south.JPG

We got the world map from GoW.

On the western front - after considering all the input - including Hot Enamel's , we did not attack Arashi. Part of this was driven by the fact that GoW has landed - so there are more 'targets' on the board now for GS. I was afraid that if we beat our brains out at Arashi, then GS would have an easy time taking out the GoW horsemen, and we may lose an ally quickly. Kind of wish GoW had gone further south.

So - the plan was to give them too many targets. Two immortals, Fleka and Tekoa moved down onto the plains next to Monsoon. The third from that stack moved back onto the spearman. I did not want to take the chance of a swordsman coming out of Arashi and killing our spearman, and the two workers that are now there to extend the road out of dissidentville.

G** D***. @##!!!&%%%% I had just finished editing this post - a long one - and was about to push submit - when the g** D***** computer's power supply went. It just shuts down. Same problem I figured happend withthe save I sent Saturday morning. Aaaaarrgghhhh!!

See if I can remember it all. And this is not the first time this has happened.

There wre several recommendations about isolating cities. The key tile here is the one on the plains ne of Arashi. So - a small force of a spearman and 3 immortals moved to this tile. It will draw attention - but it may chew up some chariots. And we may get a chance to pillage the tile. As it is a bit of a suicide mission, Beta and his two cats, Olly and Simon, made the move. One of them took a hit from passing fire.

Immortal Thadeus pillaged the road on the mountain tile, and he and a fortifed spearman remained there.

General Jon took the rest of the Immortal force to the mountain tile east of Arashi. One took a hit from passing fire IIRC.

On the eastern front - I re-read and considered Eli's post. I finally decided to attack with Argha, and he did a very nice job of taking out a swordsman with no hits to himself. I hummed and hawed, and discretion got the better part of me - I also thought it important to have a fortified unit on the mountain - so the other immortal dug in. The third Immortal (Harry?) moved up to join them - so three healthy immortals are in that stack. Two from the galley landed on the mountains.

Our galley then moved back out of range - and loaded the spearman and immortal from the galley. Depending on what the GS galleys do - they can unoad them in defensive positions - or move forward and drop them on the mountains. Any thoughts?

We now have fortified spearmen in both iron mountain and the mountain sw of it. I have also redirected the immortal in the plains to that area to start a counter-attacking force should GS decide to attack there.

We have force of eight warriors and two spearmen heading to Dissidentville. 4 more warriors are produced next turn.

The Voice will produce a spearman in two turns - not three as shown. It grows next turn IIRC. The worker is irrigating another tile which will be required in 3 turns.

We may need another worker soon. The Voice can produce one in one turn. We will need to pick the right time so we don't impair shield and military production.

Another GoW is heading south.

And I think that is it. I'm sure I had more in my original post - but I can't recall what else. Oh yes - someone can now play the east coast attack and see if I should have done it differently. Killing a second swordsman would have been nice - but I thought we were pusing our luck. Even injuring him severley may have helped - in retrospect - as thos units can reach the suicide mission on the plains. But then we can take that tile. Guess we will find out.

Please feel free to comment, criticize, suggest, or recommend.

[Eli]

I finally decided to attack with Argha, and he did a very nice job of taking out a swordsman with no hits to himself.

I already started reconsidering the idea today in the morning, fearing that if we lose the immortal they will be able to retake that mountain.

[Eli]

Harry sent this by email :

Now that I have had a chance to see the save I suggest our units by Arashi move S to the mountain with one unit pillaging the road. Keep fortified unit with the pillager for protection. Arashi is too tough for us. An Immortal (4) attacking a pikeman fortified on a hill behind walls (~8.5) is not good odds. They are leaving their other cities open which means they have pulled all their other defenders into a couple of key places. One of those being Arashi. All it will take is for them to have three pikemen in Arashi and our chances of razing the city would be extremely slim, and it would cost us most of our military to do it. Move South and expose more territory. Due to the way the GS border is there must be another city S of the chariot or W of the mountain tip that we can see. Oh, how I wish we had horsemen to move into those empty cities.

What to do with the reinforcements behind the main force? They could move down to join the pillager and follow the main force, or they could move into the open to threaten Monsoon. It is hard to tell. They could have a swordsmen or two in Arashi under the pikemen. I guess I could go either way. Take your pick or flip a coin. It is hard to tell whether we will have better opportunities later or not.

On the east Harry should join the others and they should fortify. The galley should drop off its two units on the mountain and then pull back. Those two galleys from GS are up to no good. Either they take out our galley to stop us from moving units on the east or they will drop off units to threaten our iron. Or both.

Tim should pull back to iron mountain and Hoover should join him. We need two units to counter anything they land and from iron mountain they have road access in case they land farther north. The spearmen next to the iron can take up a spot on the remaining unoccupied mountain next to the iron. That will keep GS from landing units on any mountain.

It would be nice to have RP join the fight, but that will put us in a bind. GoW will be expecting us to help them against RP and RP will be expecting us to be on their side. Unfortunately it will take RP 15-25 turns before they could get units to GS territory, unless they already have a galley and units already NE or their territory. They could shorten that time significantly if they are willing to risk a galley or two crossing the narrow area between them and GS. They could keep the transported units safe by transferring units from galley to galley and only leaving empty galleys on the ocean or sea.

I see the GoW galley has started mapping the west coast of GS territory.

At least we found their iron. Too bad we can not get to it.