DIPLO: RollPlay Team contact LOG

[Cort Haus]

from Togas, and my reply

Hi Togas, thanks for the note

Good! you didn't buy PP - well that's just in time then

Vox didn't specify an NDA to us - and we'll be getting it in 3 turns from then (we paid them Invention)- so you could have it then and maybe research either Democracy or Navigation.

How do you guys feel about having your GA triggered - courtesy of a GS warrior? Maybe it's an exploit and shouldn't be done - we're discussing it in our forum - there's some enthusiasm for it - though it would mean that Vox could trigger Lego's GA for them too.

We're making a plan to dash for Scientific Method before Lego, building ToE the same turn via a prebuild, and Hoover shortly after that. Of course, if there's no coal we f*cked anyway.

Assuming we can't get any tech trades with GoW/ND (and we don't wish to trade tech with Lego), we calculate that with RP's gpt help, we can get to the Industrial era in 29 turns, while you still should have enough gpt to rush some commercial builds. We reckon that with us doing the research for both of us, and you boosting our tech-rate with GPT, you'd be contributing very valuably to the alliance, and can still turn up some 40-turn techs on the way.

Regards,

Cort.

Cort,

We haven't purchased it YET, but we were seriously considering it.

We're trying to find a way to assist you guys other than the GPT thing, but if nothing else we'll do that.

--Togas

[Cort Haus]

note to Togas

Togas,

We were wondering whether we should check with Vox first to confirm that GS can supply Printing Press to RP. They appeared not to specify any NDA when we agreed, but things could get sour if they don't see it like that.

Regards,

Cort

[Cort Haus]

I think what I'd like to know is if Vox is giving tech and/or gold to Legoland.

If RP buys PP from Vox, will they share the profits with Lego?

If they're beholden to Lego in some fashion, then it's best that we just get it from you guys.

But if Vox is acting independently, it's better that we save face, diplomaticly, and buy it from them. If Vox is an independent I'd like for RP to try to move closer to forming a good relationship with Vox, as we both have something in common.

Either way, let me know.

[Cort Haus]

to Togas

Togas,

Vox have politely asked us if we could accept a 5-10 turn NDA while they negotiate the trade of PP to 'another team', which we've accepted. The better news is that they are doing democracy next, and are offering to do a deal with us on that - which is cool by us if they don't fwd the techs to Lego.

This means that you could start Navigation at 40-turn immediately, and get PP from us when the NDA expires. It also occured that if you did want to trade with Vox you have the Incense now, which we would prefer you traded rather than gold which we all can use on Stormia.

Vox are keen to cultivate good relations with GS too, so an era of friendly trade between RP, GS and Vox could be upon us.


Regards,

Cort.

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

Cort,

Spain has now switched to Navigation on the 40 turn plan. We will hold off buying Printing Press from Vox and offer (when they ask) to give them incense instead.

We have gifted you 20gpt this turn. We currently make 30gpt. Should our gpt get too low we'll kick in a few marketplaces to try and keep up the 20gpt pace.

Two new units will be ready next turn, so feel free to clear out the pikeman in the north-east corner and the inf on the east side.

--Togas

[Cort Haus]

to Togas

1. Many thanks for the gpt - we'll have Banking in 3 turns.

2. Santa Barbara : one of our team has raised the remote but theoritical spectre of Santa Barabara flipping to GoW - despite Port Isolation's level 1 border. He reckons the odds are 1/2000 per turn, and the risk could be eliminated by keeping 2 defenders in there. I'm no authority on flipping, but 60 shields sounds an expensive insurance policy to me (nearly 2/3 of a marketplace and over 1/8 of Magellan) for a tiny risk. However, if you have 2 pikes already, we can cover the wall. (see point 3) Discussions on this continue on our forum - what do you guys think?

3. Sea wall and unit maintainence costs : our wall is complete and we have a few units spare. The original idea was that you could make your own wall out of cats, but as we don't need those GS units up there ourselves yet, and see no likely use for them for the forseeable future with the tech push for ToE our current target, how do you feel about switching to marketplaces then banks, and leaving our units on the wall, to save your unit costs and increase, rather than decrease, your commercial output?

4. Magellans : Attention in GS is turning to the eventual threat of Marines, following a post by H_E on the strat forum demonstrating how, in a PBEM, Tiberius opened the save to find his civ had gone doughnut following a marine assault on one city and the same-turn unleashing of cavalry on an undefended core. An analsis posted on our forum shows how GS could awake to find its entire civ destroyed in a single turn if we fail to defend effectively against Marines. We feel that denying Magellans to all opponents by either GS or RP building it would be an important part of our mutual defence. We could build it in Bolderberg in around 40 turns - which would time well with your research into Navigation. If you were then to build the Oracle we could loan you BB for a turn to trigger your GA. The feeling is that sacrificing a warrior for a GA would not be accepted by all teams, but it would also allow Lego to follow suit and time their GA to perfection.

[Cort Haus]

to Togas

Hi Togas,

We have Banking, and will send it to you once ND has it, to stop it devaluing for them. We hope your galley enjoyed the trip home. We got PP from Vox. We tried to do a deal with GoW for Chemistry but as usual they were playing the slipperly eel, so we'll probably do it ourselves in 4-turn now they've traded it to the others.

Regards,

Cort

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

Cort,

You can feel free to withdraw four more units from the eastern seawall as we have the units to cover it, now that the Nina is home.

--Togas

[Cort Haus]

Cort Haus wrote on 03-02-2004 15:56:
cc Arnelos

Hi Togas / Arnelos,

What did you think about the ideas of us lending you Magellans?
(if we get it - Lego might be onto it as I think they have Nav)

We've got Chemistry in a deal for Physics with GoW. There's a 20-turn NDA, but we'll be able to give it to you after that.

Regards,

Cort Haus

[Cort Haus]

Bolderberg is a culture-building free zone, except for a 30s temple. If we got Magellans and you built the Oracle, we gift you Bolderberg for one turn to trigger your GA, and you give it back once triggered. We'll only lose the cheap temple.

By the way, if you wanted to get some markets in before units, we're in no hurry to deploy our units elsewhere. It's up to you.

Cort,

How would you "lend" us Magellans?

--Togas

[Cort Haus]

from Arnelos

Could you clarify the background on this? When is Magellan's going to be completed? What city? Could you clarify when and for how long you intend to perhaps lend the city in which it resides?

More importantly, what do YOU believe you have to gain by lending it to us? I'm not quite clear on the point. Lay out the full argument for us.

Thanks.

- Arnelos

[Cort Haus]

to Arnelos

Arnelos,

The first point I think was was covered in an earlier PM to Togas. It would complete a turn-or-two after you get Navigation.

On the second point - in addition to wishing to do what we can for our allies, we'd seek some share of the GA profits - were it to be economically viable. We would face loss of commerce during the one or two turn transition. It might only be worth it if your cities are all high in pop.

Initially, we were thinking of offering a unit for your UU to kill, but it was felt that would not be acceptable to all teams, and Lego could use the same tactic to a greater effect with Vox triggering a Lego GA at the most favourable moment for Lego.

However, dicussion among GS of the "Magellans-lend once RP built the Oracle" idea has raised the possibility of city-swapping for GA purposes being seen as foul by other teams too. I think it is unique, though, and unlikely to be done often in games because of the volume of investment in wonder-size cities that would usually be lost in a city swap.

What do you guys think?

Regards,

Cort.

[Cort Haus]

from Arnelos

On the second point - in addition to wishing to do what we can for our allies, we'd seek some share of the GA profits - were it to be economically viable. We would face loss of commerce during the one or two turn transition. It might only be worth it if your cities are all high in pop.

No problems there. The whole point would be to help you guys make a little more money on behalf of the alliance.

Initially, we were thinking of offering a unit for your UU to kill, but it was felt that would not be acceptable to all teams, and Lego could use the same tactic to a greater effect with Vox triggering a Lego GA at the most favourable moment for Lego.

However, dicussion among GS of the "Magellans-lend once RP built the Oracle" idea has raised the possibility of city-swapping for GA purposes being seen as foul by other teams too. I think it is unique, though, and unlikely to be done often in games because of the volume of investment in wonder-size cities that would usually be lost in a city swap.

What do you guys think?

I think other civilizations are likely to complain about it regardless.

Have we considered that because until Amphibious Warfare, there's ZERO chance that anyone can invade us that we could do the following? ...

We land a force somewhere on Bob before the advent of RR. As long as GoW/ND can't kill the stack upon its landing and we can use at least one conquistadore to run 9 tiles across Bob and whack an ND or GoW unit (perhaps use multiple conquistadores to ensure eventual success), we get our Golden Age. Hell, because conquistadores are so friggin' FAST, we could literally just land a stack of a few of them on the southern edge of Bob and race them 9 tiles to a suitable location where we could find any vulnerable ND or GoW unit and whack it. Instant GA!

Then, because GoW/ND have no ability to invade Stormia, we just say that we'll sign peace whenever they're ready for it. They'll probably wait 5 turns just so they can keep the happiness bonus, but there's little reason for them to remain at war... afterall, WW is going to hurt them a lot more than us in the long run.

That's as fair as it's going to get for starting RP's GA, I'd think.

That said, I'm not opposed to building the Oracle and swapping Magellan's at all. If we're actually going to sink the shields into the Oracle, that should be good enough to satisfy people (it probably won't for some of them, but it should be).

[Cort Haus]

to Arnelos

Interesting. One problem is that Steam will probably be around before you get Navigation, though how far actual rails will be developed is another question. Another version of the scenario is to wait to see what GoW & ND do with their Cavalry when they come online in a few turns. Either they hit each other, or they hit Lego (more difficult, with sea-logistics). Whatever happens, RP could strike a deal with one side to offer reconnaisance services in exchange for a launch-pad for your Conq's.

Imagine what a stack of Conq's could do to the black hole that is Lego's map! RP would be world heroes!

It might even be possible for RP to hire GoW to trigger the GA, perhaps paying them an industrial tech which GS could provide - or structuring it with some other deal. I don't know if it's OK to hire mercs for this any more than to have an ally do it, but again, it sets a precendent for Lego.

[Cort Haus]

Togas' reply to Legopolis Intel

Cort,



Not much we can do with that sort of cooperation by the two biggest teams. Doesn't make much sense to me. Lego has this game wrapped up unless ND changes it's policy.

--Togas