DIPLO: RollPlay Team contact LOG

[Cort Haus]

from Aidun

My reply is a bit late, but why would we trade with ND if it is already so powerful? Is there any source that indicates that GoW is going to side with ND. If so, we would indeed do well to sell cities to ND, but only as last option if they can be of no more use to us.
If GoW would but side with ND against Lego, any support we would give them them, wheter that is our goal or not, makes them maybe even too strong. During the war the economies of GoW and ND have become "war economies" - everything in the service of war and production - and the best way to not lose is then to continue the war and make use of this "war economy".

[Cort Haus]

to Aidun

Thanks for the reply. It's looking highly unlikely that any deal with ND is on the cards - they're not making any peace moves to us at the moment.

We cannot hold those cities without an ally on Bob - they can only be disbanded or traded. While ND have expressed no interest in any deal, GoW are approaching us in friendship - looking for a trading parter, if not more. GS has expected that withdrawing from Bob would shake up the bag, but we don't yet know which way things will fall.

If, as you say, both GoW and ND are committed to a war economy and must continue fighting, they will either attack Lego or each other. As GS see it, if Lego aren't made to bleed before they get rails, it's probably game over - unless GS are able to get productive land on Bob.

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

Have taken your advice and are building Cats now. We will still have one city build a barracks and make pikes.

We are making 22gpt, which will go down once we start making more units, but for a time we might be able to help fund your research by giving you GPT. We have 88g in the bank and will have Banking in 22 turns.

Once we get those cats built we'll then build markets and libraries, but this is going to take time, obviously.

Let us know if you need anything or have any questions.

[Cort Haus]

from Aidun

Sorry for the late reply, I forgot to check because I got no notice of a new PM. You are right on Lego.

Negotiations with ND failed as you have seen by the fall of Pamplona. GoW approached us for peace, but we have a feeling that it is not real and are now discussing if it is fair to remain at war while using the advantage of your seawall and while we do not fight anymore.

Arnelos suggested to discuss this with GS too.

Though our lurkers have come up with the idea that it is unfair and not honourable, this is accepted as true, but not fully embraced. I fear that war, defeat and the total sphere of the relationships between teams - of distrust, hatred, treachery and occasionally even feud - has filled our minds with bitterness and left deep scars in our skins.

Arnelos is moderate: not directly make peace, but also not remain in an endless war without fighting. BigFree is with him this time. For me, the words honour and fairness have but a faint meaning to me and I am currently more of the wing of "grab what you can get" or "do whatever to deny another fortune".

Before I forget it, there is also something joyful: Happy Nwe Year.

Aidun

[Cort Haus]

Hi Aidun, thanks for your PM.

Yes, we need to consider the WW question. GoW have requested that we ask you to make peace with them - in reply we said we'd discuss it with you.

Internally at GS, there is no unanimous opinion either way. Some feel that WW is a legit tool under these circumstances, others feel it an exploit.

I would add that right or wrong - it could set a game precedent that could be used against us both later. We can be sure that as your protector, GS will take an equal share of any blame or resentment if long term WW is deployed against GoW/ND.

On the other hand, GoW shouldn't expect automatic magnanimity - perhaps they could offer you something in return for peace.

Ultimately though, someone has to hit Lego soon, and that has to be ND and GoW. If we cripple them with WW, it just hands Lego the game. In all our dicussions with GoW we repeatedly emphasise that grudges and hate are not the way to win the game - pragmatic alliances are, and we think that applies to all teams.

Regards,

Cort

[Cort Haus]

from Aidun

Hi Cort Haus,

Thanks for your response. This time mine is fairly on time.

Your reasoning is quite the same as Arnelos' argumentation.
You are right that we shouldn't forget the diplomacy, even thou it doesn't seem to play any part anymore. If there will ever be real long lasting peace between parts of the two alliances, illtreatment now may cause a defeat later.

I think but that with the fall of Roleplay, the diplomacy will never be the same and in-game power will rather than words and clever maneuvres determine which nation wins and which loses.

We of Roleplay will not stop the war until GoW has payed us in some way. Their greed to get Pamplona was bigger than their ability to rationally think and look at the real enemy: Legoland.
They would better have spared their troops for an attack on Lego's soil. Now we will not forgive that mistake very easily. I will press for payment.

You are however our protectors and though you did not agree to let us become a vassalstate when we offered this to you in return for aid, we have a debt to you that lasts until the end of the game. Twice you saved us. By aiding us and recently by offering your land to us for free to let us survive. Still you are protecting us with your seawall.
You will therefore have a dominant say in what foreign policy we will conduct. We are afterall not your ally to be an obstacle on your road.

Please keep us informed about the discussion in your team and I'll do so for us.

Regards,

Aidun

[Arrian]

I think peace needs to be organized relatively quickly at this point. I don't like the "give us stuff or we will stay at war with you" thing, while I do understand RP trying to get whatever they can out of GoW.

Perhaps a quick note to Aggie to the affect of "hey, we're trying to set up peace between you guys and RP, and it seems that they want something from you for peace. In the interest of getting this done, is there some token thing you could part with? Perhaps 20 turns of a luxury (which RP probably doesn't even need)? I think it's the willingness to toss something their way that matters most, not the value. What do you think?"

Something like that. If they refuse, then I think we need to "advise" RP to just make peace straight-up.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

edit - wrong thread

edit - wrong thread

[Cort Haus]

note to Aidun

Aidun,

We have suggested to GoW that they approach you directly to discuss peace. Should they contact you in this capacity, we wish you well in any discussions.

Regards,

CH

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

We have 7 units ready to form our own sea wall. If you'd like, you can start moving units from the top-right corner of the map and we'll fill in the gaps. If you have any questions, let me know. We just need to make sure not to move anyone near the GoW ship to the north-east as GoW and ND move before us.

We accepted Gunpowder but didn't know what to offer for it. I offered WM but we'd be happy to give you gold as well. We have @140 gold and make aprox 30gpt. We have plans to buy Printing Press from the Voxians and would be happy to give that to you as well.

Banking will be done in just over 20 turns and we'll also gift that to you.

Our lone ship. Please protect it as it heads home. We still are not at peace with GoW and ND and while GoW has offered peace we've been reluctant to accept as we're waiting for someone in the GoW/ND/Lego alliance to go to war and we'd like to pick one of 'em to suffer continued WW.

However, if none of them go to war, I'll probably go peace, but I have to say that most of my team is still very emotional and vengeful about the issue. Most of them want to keep the war going.

--Togas

my ack :

Thanks for the note, Togas, I'll post it on our forum, and get back to you when our team has responded.

Meanwhile, we've already traded Invention to Vox for Printing Press when they get it, and should have Astronomy in a couple of turns.

[Cort Haus]

to Togas

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort%20Haus/zx460_sea.jpg

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort%20Haus/zx460_nstormia.jpg

We've moved six units from the east coast which you can fill. One of your four workers will presumably stay on that tile.

We have astronomy next turn, which, if you were to have it would enable you to take a sea-route to Stomia, rather than running the gauntlet on the GoW coastline. Therefore we recommend that your galley goes back SE along the coast. We have lookouts, and no enemy ships are nearby. The northern route is dangerous and hard to screen as GoW can push galleys out of Port Isolation.

We would probably be hoping to have Banking sooner than 20 turns, as our major cities are completing universities at the moment. Rather than offering us gold as payment for the techs we are giving you, can you put the research pedal down to get banking faster?

We are slightly concerned at the prospect of 'emotion and vengeance' holding sway within RP. It may be that there will be no war between our old adversaries as long as RP remains at war with GoW/ND. We have seen 13 Lego Knights still guarding the GoW coastline. Unless Lego are hurt, they will win. GS fear that if RP's policy is only for vengeance, GS will have to pay a price. We are already being held responsible by GoW for any permanent cold war that could arise.

[notyoueither]

I took some initiative and ran down a RP player. Let me know if this was a bad thing.

*notyoueither* hi
*BigFree* hi
*notyoueither* a ptwdg question, if i may
*BigFree* sure
*notyoueither* rp is researching banking, yes? with 1 scientist, or with cash?
*BigFree* 1 scientist
*BigFree* since back on Bob
*notyoueither* ok, so cannot be sped up. :/
*BigFree* no,not rea;lly
*BigFree* I can check though
*notyoueither* ok
*BigFree* cannot be sped up
*BigFree* 25 turns as of 460 AD
*BigFree* at 10%
*notyoueither* didn't think so. ok, thanks
*BigFree* at 100% its still 25 turns
*BigFree* So, we can actually give you gold
*BigFree* or bank it so we can speed the next item
*BigFree* depends on what you want
*BigFree* we are but a shell
*notyoueither* the leaders will let you know what is preferred
*BigFree* ok
*BigFree* BTW, we will likely be givng GoW and ND peace soon
*notyoueither* i saw that that was being bandied about
*BigFree* Though, I would like to build galleys and send them in
*BigFree* but, In one of a few
*BigFree* So, what ever is in GS'es best interst, we will do
*notyoueither* well, if we do not go quiet, there is no reason for the troika to break up, is there?
*BigFree* thats true
*notyoueither* unless they break up, either lego or nd win. no question
*BigFree* IF we can count on GoW to drop them
*notyoueither* i think the conflict will come nd-lego
*BigFree* hopefully
*notyoueither* gow is as hopeless for a win as vox
*BigFree* HAHA
*notyoueither* i can see gow trying to push lego over the hump, but i think nd may have ideas of winning themselves
*BigFree* Of course
*BigFree* ND is not in this to win it for any other team
*notyoueither* and gow is... less than stable, if that is not an understatement
*BigFree* But, GoW may be settled on helping Lego win
*notyoueither* maybe for the last few turns, but they have strange ways of playing the game
*notyoueither* i think the only thing we can do is go quiet, lay low, and see what develops
*BigFree* yes, they dont follow any "rules"
*notyoueither* if we've been robbed of rubber, coal and oil as well, then ce le vie
*BigFree* yes 12:4(1
*notyoueither* no sp is actually a good sign
*notyoueither* we don;t need it and there has to something beneath us
*BigFree* hmm, maybe
*notyoueither* anyways, thanks for chatting. g'night

[Cort Haus]

to Togas, Arnelos : 470 AD Update

Greetings, friends at RP.

When you open the save you shoud find Astronomy in there - with the warmest compliments of GS. We can tell you that GoW and ND do not have these yet, so please observe NDA conditions, though Lego and Vox do have Astronomy.

We have studied our economy and concluded that despite your 15 turns or so of 1 scientist research of the tech, it is best for us to research Banking immediately, which we are doing at a four-turn pace. We calculate the banks we build will boost our research to win back these four turns by the end of the era.

We are running a defecit however, so we must ask you to help us with gpt. It's good value, we're sure you agree If we do the research, while you contibute GPT, we can both be in the industrial era in no time. GS commercial output will surge over the next 10-15 turns as the program of post-war economic builds starts to bear fruit.

So apart from the cats for your sea-wall, which we are pleased to see rolling out from your cities, we would suggest that you build markets, aquas and harbours to boost pop and pump out the gold. You'll want to keep yourselves some gpt for rushing some builds, so offer us what you can. We're running a 20gpt defecit at the moment, so getting that covered would help.

Perhaps Navigation or Democracy at 40-turn could be considered - or maybe the scientist would even be better working mines and fields. This would be something to discuss and consider.

Meanwhile, your galley can return home safely via the sea now, and we will shield it as it gets close to your port. We can also use galleys to screen the coastline from GoW ships, allowing you to take up the north and westerrn positions on the sea wall when the time comes.

Regards,

Cort Haus.
on behalf of your good friends Gathering Storm.

cc Arnelos

[Cort Haus]

from Arnelos

Cort Haus,

Received your letter and I've posted it to the RP internal forum. We'll certainly look at ways that we can expand our commerical output and I think the team would be quite welcome to providing what GPT income we can to support your research effort and reach the Industrial Age at increased speed. Afterall, the primary reason for having Roleplay Team control these northern cities is that we can build them up more efficiently then GS might on your own and then supply the fruits of that labor for the alliance to use for joint benefit.

In other issues, the team is currently discussing the issue of making peace with Glory of War (who has asked for it) and New Demogyptica (which, as of yet, has not). It had been my opinion that we needed to have a discussion with Gathering Storm about the prospects for the immediate future and whether we would be fighting either of them within the next 20 or so turns, the ONLY case under which I felt it would be ok for us to maintain a state of war (it should be noted that there are a few on the team who want to maintain war regardless, however).

It has been pointed out to me by BigFree, however, that apparently your team believes the best course of action is for us to immediately sign peace treaties with both GoW and ND because you believe this may help precipitate the inevitable GoW-ND or GoW-Lego conflict at an earlier date. I agree that bringing about the inevitable fracturing of their alliance must be the primary aim of GS/RP foreign policy and your apparent belief that quick peace treaties may help to precipitate this does make some sense.

So even if it were to lead to resumed hostilities within a relatively short timespan (thus perhaps giving our chosen opponent a happiness BONUS rather than continued deficit when we redeclare on them), it may be a worthwhile strategy given that we need to fracture their alliance first. Regardless, the balance of the team still seems committed to the idea that we'd like to get some sort of lasting settlement with GoW out of these negotiations which might involve something from GoW to us in return for us agreeing to such a settlement.

I'm ready to agree to pursue that with GoW, but obviously RP Team needs to consult with Gathering Storm on the issue, given that if GoW wants anything binding into the future, that could be problematic if the future plans of the alliance lead elsewhere, nevermind that our treaty with Gathering Storm obligates us to consult you on such negotiations.

So I would very much like RP and GS to meet in chat in the near future to discuss the issues surrounding the alliance's plans for the immediate future and thus how some particulars that may come up in RP peace negotiations with GoW and ND should proceed as a result.

I honestly don't know Togas' schedule or that of anyone else, so I can't speak for them on that count. As for me, I'm likely going to be out of town from this Thursday evening through Sunday. I'll be around both before then and after then if we can chat at those times. If you want to chat this weekend, my recommendation is that you make sure you get at least one of Togas, BigFree, or Aidun in chat with you (preferably more than one along with anyone else who happens to be around).

Following that, we need to progress with any GoW negotiations and get this matter settled and behind us, as I think we agree.

It's good to hear from you guys.

- Arnelos

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

Cort Haus,

If you guys haven't purchased Printing Press from Vox, let us purchase it and give it to you. We can easily buy it at a cheaper price than you could given our "pity factor"

We'd like to be able to contribute some tech to the alliance.

We're happy to help fund GS research by giving up gpt. 10-20gpt may not be out of the question.

--Togas