DIPLO: RollPlay Team contact LOG

[asleepathewheel]

MWIA

Thanks for the quick reply.

Basically what is happening is that we are about to be overrun in the south, Barcelona will be captured probably next turn. There are 15 riders and 8 cats bearing down on us. Thus we are beating a hasty retreat. Our plans are to abandon Barcelona next turn and pillage everything around the area, evacuating our units via galley back to stormia. Do you have problems with any of that?

We need you to do the following:

Your workers nearr Barca can move 9, but if GoW advance thay should disband on the turn after.

Please leave road at Tol-3 and Tol-32 clear for our units coming south.

Perhaps you other workers could run into jungle?

Let us know if you need some cash to maintain your forces in Pamplona, and please get in touch anyway - we need to discuss the future.


What are the plans for Pamplona. Are you going to make a final stand there? It looks like ND will be hitting you, and GoW is working on our forces.

Anyway, that's a start with what we've been thinking recently. I would appreciate it if you passed it on.

Thanks
-aatw

[OPD]

Spoke to Aidun briefly in the ISDG room. He may still be there..

*Aidun1> Hey OPD
*opd> heya Aidun
* Aidun1 sets mode: +o opd
*opd> Lord Aidun?
*Aidun1> apparently, yes, I'm mod here, and now you too
*opd>
* Aidun1 is now known as Aidun
*opd> how active are you with RP?
*Aidun> quite active, why?
*opd> people in GS are getting very worried about RP not responding to PM's
*opd> Is the RP forum still alive?
*Aidun> Cort Haus sent us a PM about the near future, and the most active players, Arnelos, BigFree and I have just advised Togas about what to do for the future
*opd> People in GS are beginning to think you may have lost interest in the game
*Aidun> We have, but we still play
*Aidun> and we still play serious
*opd> so what do you want to do for the future?
*Aidun> not retreat from Bob if not neccesary, but I advised Togas to not request GS for further support for a hopeless Spain
*Aidun> no military supprt and no financial support
*Aidun> But to let us have N-Estonia to let the civ remain in the game and slowly retreat from Bob as we further lose cities to the enemy
*opd> so what would RP's plans be regarding north stormia?
*opd> and war with GoW/ND?
*Aidun> Togas will evetually try to contact ND to try to get ND understand to let this war rest and concentrate on the future. That ND faces a much greater thread than GS and RP together: GoW and Lego together. A friendly approach like we used to do before the war
*opd> BTW did RP agree to a no sistines build with lego?
*Aidun> yes
*opd> you guys noticed they built bachs?
*Aidun> we lied to Lego that we were building Sistine and demanded payment to end it, so Lego could have it
*opd> they can use sistines as a prebuild for the rest of the game now
*opd> lol how much did you get?
*Aidun> hundreds
*opd> wow how many????????
*Aidun> can't remember.
*Aidun> but it was a lot. less trhan 500
*Aidun> that';s all I know
*opd> cool, cheers
*Aidun> and luxuries and maybe even techs or a possible techdeal.
*opd> did you get much out of the pregame agreement with lego?
*Aidun> it was extremely important for them
*Aidun> Nothing
*Aidun> the only thing we got out of legoland was because of clever diplomatic maneuvres
*Aidun> mostly Bigfree's and my work
*opd> ok I have to go
*Aidun> ok
*opd> can you get RP to respond to some of the communications from GS?
*Aidun> no you know a littlebit, but it was up for discussion.
*Aidun> I'll send togas a PM
*Aidun> and BigFree
*Aidun> I guess he'll play the game
*Aidun> to Cort Haus?
*Aidun> he has to send it to?
*opd> CH and AATW
*Aidun> AATW?
*opd> asleep at the wheel
*Aidun> ok
*Aidun> cya later then. Posted orders MI
*Aidun> 3600
*opd> cool

[Cort Haus]

chat with Aidun

{opd> {opd> so what would you like to do then?
{opd> {Aidun> We only want to stay alive if we can be of any real use to you, only if our survival in N-Stormia benefits you
{opd> * Cort has joined #MilOps
{opd>
{Cort> have I missed much?
{opd> just that
{Cort> ok, that's cool ...
{Cort> you can be really useful to as as a tech partner
{Cort> *us excuse terrible typing
{Cort> We have gunpowder very soon
{Aidun> ass long ass we can understand watt you wright, its fine
{Cort>
{Cort> - and reason to belive that other civs will be keen to offer us generous trading terms
{Aidun> That is great, but can RP be of real benefit to you, or are we just that other team you are carying on you back
{Aidun> please be honest
{Cort> there's been discussion in the team about this ...
{Cort> on one hand we could have our own core up there eventually
{Cort> but on the other hand you guys coould have a core there now
* Joins: Octavian_X
{Aidun> right, it could spare you an FP in the future
{Cort> five cities at size six, many sea tiles could generate easily 80gpt righth?
{Cort> hi Octavian
{Aidun> I don't know about numbers
{Aidun> Hi Octavian
{Octavian_X> Hello.
{Cort> there are 26 tiles of sea wall to cover ...
* Quits: Aidun (Quit: )
* Joins: Aidun
{Octavian_X> That's disappointing...
{Aidun> something went wrong...
{Cort> ok to continue?
{Aidun> yes
{Cort> there are about 26 units of coast to cover ..
{Cort> you could build cats for this
{Aidun> ok
{Cort> they have many attractions - cheap, upgrade to nice things and they ping ships
{opd> were blocking the tiles so were invincible till amphibious warfare
{Cort> then we can move our forces south for our own sea wall
{Cort> we'll both be safe in a cocoon for over an era
{Aidun> So we build cats to shoot the enemy boats
{Cort> during which time we build up, become commercially strong and hope the others break themselves in war
{Cort> - especially Lego
{Aidun> Seems a good plan
{Cort> Now, if ND/GoW go and invade Lego ...
{Cort> they don't want us jumping in behind - that's both of us and you'll have conquistadors
{Aidun> so they have to fight two fronts again
{Cort> Yes - So at the very least they'll pay for our neutrality
{Cort> If they don't attack Lego, Lego win - right?
{Aidun> right
{Aidun> you force them to
{Aidun> and GoW is not the type of team to go for one era of building
{Cort> lol - Yes - and there's our leverage
{Cort> GoW have made us a peace offer
{Cort> A cease fire - via formal peace and we'd get some wine
{Cort> that may not be the right price, but it's the right direction
{Cort> all signs are that once we're off Bob, they don't want to be enemies at all
{Aidun> I cannot speak for my team until at least BigFree has seen it. But if you agree to this with your team, Arnelos and I will agree to this too and I expect BigFree to do that to. Afterall we're desperate and every opportunity to continue AND be of worth to you is for us a reason to go on and go for it.
{Cort> and the scenario above explains why
{Cort> sure, Aidun - we're interested in what RP as a team think, and what individuals think
{Cort> Arrian may be chatting to Arnelos later - they're on the same team in the MZOC3C game
{Aidun> very well.
{Cort> this is geat Aidun, I appreciate the chat
{Aidun> Another practical thing that means a lot for our team: Pamplona and the remains of Spain that are on your hands now
{Cort> Yes, we need to talk about that
{Aidun> what will we do with that? Arnelos and I have consensus about that too.
{Cort> You probably have a lot of bargaining power with GoW now
{opd> what do you about it?
{Aidun> I have a plan
{Cort> go on
{Aidun> We no longer in vest in the war: no offensive campaigns anymore, no extra finance to keep up an army on Bob, but:
{Aidun> remain Pamplona as long as possible, and if that doesn't drain your economy, remain the other cities on Bob as well and only making suer there is some basic defense in it. For Pamplona we intend to keep it as long as possible and try to defend it. If we lose it, so be it. We don't want to do anything anymore to recover lost cities.
{Cort> Aggie told us something about Pamplona
{Octavian_X> That does sound like a good idea. I don't see why ND and GoW would object to allowing RP one city on Bob...
{Cort> The battle of the Forest of Doom hit them and ND hard too - mainly ND,
{Aidun> Forest of Doom, weren't I so desperate, I'd write a story about it
{Cort> but that was enough to stop the combined one-two that would have taken it
{Aidun>
{Aidun> right
{Cort> Listen - Aggie says that battle gave Pamplona another FIFTEEN turns
{Cort> waddya think of that?
{Aidun> that is a lot. And with your new approach I think it's useless for them to attack
{Cort> - exactly
{Cort> I think you could do a deal with GoW
{Aidun> especially if we'd put muskets in it.
{opd> I gotta go to bed
{opd> see you guys around
{Cort> cya
* Quits: opd (Quit: )
{Aidun> ok OPD. cya
{Aidun> but that is not a plan right now
* Joins: asleepathewheel
{Cort> Hey, AATW!
{asleepathewheel> hey
{asleepathewheel> whats going on right now?
{Aidun> interesting info Cort, I guess Arn can do something with it.
{Aidun> put it to use.

[Cort Haus]

to Arnelos, BigFree, Aidun

Arnelos,

I've been thinking long and hard about the current balance of forces on Bob, and in the world.

On Bob, the recent carnage has left RP in a far stronger position than they were a few turns ago, and have also left Lego in a commanding game position.

Now may be the time for all four nations in the Bobian war to make a final settlement.

I believe that RP could negotiate a deal with GoW and ND which grants peace and land rights to RP on Bob, plus a generous tech and luxury package to RP and GS in exchange for existing cities (including Pamp, Barca, New Madrid). RP palace moves to Miller Town where they have 5 cities on Estonia, plus a negotiable token city presence on Bob - to be decided amongst the Bobians. GS would have no part in those land negotiations. GS also assures GoW and ND that they will not intervene or land on Bob while ND and GoW go and take Lego down a peg or two. (destroying Bach and Sistine, for example)

I've posted the this thinking on our private forum for our team to consider - so this is just an idea and not our team position - but I think both teams should be thinking about this option. If GS and RP like it, we can push it at GoW and ND to see what they think. We have to move fast - I feel that the participants in this war should not be wasting a single shield on each other that they now should be saving for Lego.

Regards,

Cort Haus

cc BigFree, Aidun

[Octavian X]

A little late-night chat...

(23:54:33) (Arnelos) Octavian_X - RP Team needs to discuss with GS a diplomatic proposal sent to us by ND
(23:54:43) (Octavian_X) ok.
(23:54:50) (Arnelos) please post that in your forum
(23:55:00) (Octavian_X) I'll do so.
(23:55:17) (Arnelos) ND wants a seperate peace with GS/RP
(23:55:26) (Arnelos) they seem worried about a GoW backstab
(23:55:29) (Arnelos) this is perfect
(23:55:59) (Octavian_X) really? that's fascinating...
(23:56:03) (Arnelos) I've been arguing in the RP internal forum for weeks about how we needed to talk to ND about the future... it seems that ND has finallly contacted us
(23:56:17) (Arnelos) so I've jumped on the chance...
(23:57:02) (Arnelos) ND wants us to do them the favor of helping them take Pamplona, but to also help them stop GoW for getting any more territory in Southern Bob and to work against GoW... I've told ND tentatively that RP Team is interested, but that we
(23:57:07) (Arnelos) 'll want something in return
(23:57:13) (Arnelos) we need to negotiate that
(23:57:48) (Arnelos) in addition... my idea I've floated inside RP Team is that it might be possible to get ND to agree *in writing* to some form of binding agreement with Gathering Storm concerning the future if RP Team helps them with this now
(23:57:56) (Arnelos) it's an idea...
(23:58:05) (Arnelos) but needs much discussion by RP and GS
(23:58:08) (Octavian_X) That's great news!
(23:58:15) (Arnelos) and then we need to negotiate it with ND
(23:58:15) (Octavian_X) I'll relay this information immeadiately.
(23:58:19) (Arnelos) good

[Octavian X]

A little longer. We definately need to arrange a chat with RP, soon.

(00:00:08) (Octavian_X) posted.
(00:00:15) (Arnelos) ok, thanks
(00:00:52) (Arnelos) I think that Legoland and GoW have been preparing to backstab ND for some time... if ND is actually serious about looking for a seperate peace and getting us to thwart GoW, they may have realized this
(00:01:20) (Arnelos) if ND is REALLY worried about a Legoland-GoW alliance, it may even be possible to move ND toward an alliance with GS
(00:01:33) (Arnelos) which might actually get GS a source of saltpeter in Southern Bob
(00:01:37) (Arnelos) that's my thought, anyways
(00:01:42) (Arnelos) it's a long shot, but I'd love to take it
(00:02:10) (Octavian_X) And I thouight this game couldn't get any more interesting...
(00:02:51) (Arnelos) we already tried negotiating with Legoland, we already tried negotiating with GoW and both gave us the cold shoulder... if ND is willing, I think it's clear who's the rusty third wheel of their alliance afterall
(00:03:22) (Arnelos) but it will depend greatly on whether ND is willing to give something in return for our favor... that will prove just how much they really need it
(00:03:56) (Octavian_X) If we're lucky, I think, we can secure RP a homeland on Bob after all.
(00:04:15) (Arnelos) we'll see
(00:04:34) (Arnelos) I'm not as optimistic on that count until we move ND in that direction
(00:04:39) (Arnelos) I think they might be willing to concede that, but that's not where their negotiating stance is likely to start
(00:05:15) (Arnelos) we've learned in the past that ND does not typically negotiate "fairly"... of course, since RP hasn't typically negotiated "fairly", either... it made for a rather bad relationship before
(00:05:34) (Octavian_X) I think RP has a good chance. Call it 'repirations for previous atrocities against our nation' in return for RP's support.
(00:05:39) (Octavian_X) heh
(00:06:07) (Arnelos) we'll have to see... I think that if ND truly realizes they'r about to get gang-banged by GoW and Legoland, they might need GS and/or RP to do them a favor bad enough that they'll be willing to concede more than they'd want to
(00:06:33) (Arnelos) that's what I'm banking on, anyways
(00:06:48) (Octavian_X) Only time will tell, I guess.
(00:06:54) (Arnelos) go ahead and post all of this to the GS forum, too... they should hear our discussion on this
(00:07:22) (Arnelos) I'd love to discuss this with the rest of GS... we really should have a team chat
(00:07:23) (Arnelos) Togas gets back tomorrow night
(00:07:23) (Arnelos) perhaps tomorrow or Monday?
(00:07:32) (Arnelos) I'm probably leaving town by Thursday, so definately before then
(00:07:40) (Arnelos) ok, I need to take off
(00:07:45) (Octavian_X) ok.
(00:07:54) (Octavian_X) Hope we can arrange a chat soon...
(00:07:58) (Octavian_X) g'night

[OPD]

PM from BF from a while ago (before the above). I didn't notice it at first as it was only CCed to me.

I'm sorry. First for not responding sooner, but I was fuming over GS'es decision not to go after GoW with Lego's threats notwithstanding. And for GS'es decison to withdraw those Knights that got masacared! Secondly because I think the idea stinks because it smells of shame and fear.

I do not like it. I want to do everything we can to make the war as costly for GoW and ND as possible. Here's why: GoW is out to help Lego win, period. GoW will try to win it themselves; they know that they can't and have resigned themselves to help Lego as much as RP did towards GS. The only real chance we have is to try and sway ND towards our side. Otherwise, I want to hole up in Pamplona and make them have to bleed for it. Either that or abandon it and take our units and head North with them to do as mush pillaging as we can against GoW.

cc: Aidun, Arnelos, Cort Haus, OPD, Togas

[Cort Haus]

from Aidun

I see that you received BigFree's PM. He can hardly cope with the situation, though his reaction is more offensive than I expected. His reaction is but not the reaction of our team. There is still no consensus. I hope that we can get it soon and I think we will have it soon with Arnelos and I thinking along the same lines and I think he will soon share our point of view, I can but never be sure of it.

Please keep what I said above confidential to my teammembers.

Darekill sent us a PM in which he asks us kindly to leave Pamplona to them after having jumped the palace to N-stormia. We will not agree to this and demand that ND will retreat and leave the Spanish cities alone. On other terms I think we cannot make any deals, because that would mean that we give our current cities right away.
If they want entire Spain, they have to pay for that with blood.

[OPD]

Spoke to Togas briefly but I have to go for a while.
He's left an invitation for anyone from GS who wants to talk to him to PM him. AFAIK he is still the king of Spain

opd> heya
Togas> hello
opd> ah hello, I have to go in a minute
Togas> you're on GS, right?
opd> yes
opd> there is alot to sort out
Togas> Just to let you know what's going on:
Togas> (I just got back last night, so I'm catching up myself)
opd> ok
Togas> ND offered a peace deal, but it's a "we won't kill you" sort of deal where we give them our cities and they let our troops leave
Togas> so we're not interested, but some of our guys are trying to talk to them to see if anything can be made of it
Togas> ultimately, if no peace deal is made with ND or GOW, we will hole up in Pamplona and fight them until they take the city
opd> yes it would be a shame to simply raze most of your cities when perhaps something can be exchanged for them
opd> it's very important that there is some discussions between GS and RP and soon
Togas> we've been ready to fight them for 3 months now and we're not going to just roll over at this point. If we don't get something out of it, we'll make them bleed troops kicking us out.
Togas> We'll have one, glorious, final stand before we are forced out of our home.
Togas> I'll be online all day today, other than 2 hours for lunch. So if anyone from GS wants to chat, please PM me.
opd> ok I'll pass that along
opd> BTW just so we know are you pretty much in charge of RP
opd> I mean can you speak freely and what you say be what happens?
Togas> pretty much so.
Togas> for major decisions I consult the others

[Cort Haus]

to Togas cc Arnelos, Aidun

Cort Haus wrote on 17-12-2003 13:47:
Togas,

GoW had offered us a cease-fire while we withdraw, and we have asked them if that can be made official. If so, we can screen your workers at Barc-9 from GoW, allowing them to jump in your nearby galley and row to safety .

We expect to have all troops off in 420AD (two turns after this one). That turn we also get Gunpowder. At this point in the game the remaining Great Powers may decide whether it'll be Lego & GoW v ND, or GoW & ND vs Lego.

We understand that you guys want to hold out in Pamp for as long as possible, but many at GS fear that unless Lego is weakened very soon, it'll be too late and they'll win. This is why there is a feeling within GS that heavy losses for GoW/ND at Pamplona - hugely gratifying though they'd be, could leave Lego in too dominant a position.

Given that the cities south of Pamp can not now be defended, would RP be interested in a tech deal with ND for these cities, or should we raise them? GS and RP probably agree that ND is the power to cut a deal with - if one is to be made.

Barcelona and Sirocco are both bug-free. It's NM & Toledo that crash some people's PCs. On mine, I can open the buggy cities but the line of faces is missing. Waving the cursor on them says they're Chinese - hmm.

Regards,

Cort

cc Arnelos, Aidun

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

Cort,

If you can work something out with ND, feel free to try. ND offered to allow us to surrender our cities to them, without bloodshed, and that they won't rename them. We thought that was a pretty lame offer. We asked them to give us something in exchange for handing over the cities and Darekill replied with:

My people thinks that all is said and I think that too.
So, I'll meet you on the battlefield.
Never mind.
Darekill

Yay...

Please go through with the ceasefire and give us some time to decide what to do with Barcelona and the other cities. I'm leaning towards destroying them, myself. Perhaps ND ought to be told that.

--Togas

p.s. Thanks for saving those workers for us

[Cort Haus]

to Togas

I sent this before I saw his reply to the previous. The likelihood of a deal with is low - so I'm probably wrong about the last para.

GoW have confirmed the cease-fire bteween GS and GoW so our knights will block Barc-8 and Barc-87 to stop GoW reaching your workers. They can jump in the boat on your turn.

We can give you New Madrid this turn if you like - I'm playing the turn in the next few hours so let me know if you want it. We need to keep Barca for now or GoW can take it. Under the cease fire with GS they'll have to leave it for a while.

I still think you guys could cut a deal which sees you survive in Spain. If, as I suspect, GoW and ND are thinking about hitting Lego, they don't want to spend the shields on Pamplona.

[Cort Haus]

reply to Togas

So it is done. ND have not made any offer, so we'll disband the cities try and pillage wjhat we can. We might hang on to Barc for one more turn for the Silk.

We'll rush the current cat/galley builds in Beta and Wittlich and gift you those cities after that.

Pamplona is gone.

We have loaded up the survivors in Toledo and gifted the city to you.

There's a few survivors in the Nina too.

Please accept the city so that we can escape. You should destroy the city before the black forces can take it.

Life in exile begins 400ad.

--Togas

[Cort Haus]

from Togas

27 units will be needed for our northern seawall.

We currently have:
2 pikemen
4 workers
(2 workers on the Pinta)
The Pinta

We'd like to road and mine the tile that's 8 of "The Voice" You have a pike and worker there. Please move them for us.

We will be renaming the northern cities soon. Discussion has started on it.

In 6 turns the barracks will be complete in Voice and Town. Shortly after that, barracks will be done in Hideout. We will then begin mass producing pikes.

Temples are finished.

Once the seawall is done, we could build markets and libraries ... unless you'd prefer that we start on those now and you guys handle the seawall.

Banking will be done in 30 turns (we're doing the 40 turn method)

We'd also be very happy to accept Witlich and Beta-by-the-Sea.

[Cort Haus]

reply to Togas

Togas,

Thanks for the message, it's been posted in our forum.

Had you considered using cats instead of Pikes for the wall? They don't need barracks, they're faster to produce, can ping ships, and eventually upgrade to the delicious arty. Maybe a vet Pike in each city for show is all that's needed for now.

If you're at 10/40 on Banking, you'll have some cash to rush some of the units, and we have time to decide on future builds. I think we rushed a couple of cats in Beta and Wittlich last turn, to clear the way for handing them over. You and GoW will be able to grin at each other over the channel!

A rough estimate of potential - 5 cities with about 16 commerce each is 80 gpt, minus about 35 for unit and building upkeep leaves 45 gpt before lib/mkt multipliers. When we're fully at peace with everyone, hopefully in about 3 turns, GS might have a better idea where the others are standing in tech. and then make a research plan on that basis.

I think our worker is roading that tile you mentioned - we'll be off when he's done (as long as no enemy ships are around) and let you mine it

Regards,

Cort