The ND threat.

[DeepO]

Hum, CH, better correct that PM. RP is perfectly able to sail the other way, they haven't been focused at all, and are oinly around to do us a favour. I can't imagine that Togas still has his heart with this game, nor that any roleplaying exists in their forum. If we point it out step by step, they sometimes do not listen even...

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
That would work for me. Plus it would give RP the Rubber for a turn, so they could upgrade, start builds, and then send it to us.

That is a good thing, but I would still ask GoW for the rubber. After all, we did pay for it. And if they hesitate, we know where they stand as well.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Thanks CH

DeepO

[DeepO]

Could we e.g. agree that next turn, we give RP everything except 1 harbor city (to unload forces in, e.g. New Inchon), and the rubber city for certain?
In the mean time, we ask GoW if they are willing to give RP rubber.
We wait until RP has some defenders over on their new territory, at which time we give them the rubber city as well.

BTW, they might need to perform a palace jump, in case they are keeping (part of) their Estonian territory. Otherwise, Legoland is only good for drafting.

We do need a decision on what to do with Estonia. I think that our main reason to get rid of them is the city near to GoW. If we take that in possession, it won't matter to us that there are another 4 RP cities on Estonia. So I'd say we keep them here. Let them build a FP asap, palace jump to Legoland, and have two reasonably cores. With a bit of effort, they could surpass Vox

DeepO

[DeepO]

only exception is if we can draft fast in RP cities (e.g. Abilene).

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

To clarify - we paid for 20 turns of rubber from GoW, but what happened to it?

[DeepO]

2 turns after they gave us rubber, we settled a rubber city. But that has been a couple of turns ago, so they could argue that those turns that they didn't deliver but could have delivered are part of the deal.

I'm not sure on the precise details, whether they still owe us 14 or 16 turns, but it is something in that region.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Are we still recieving GoW's rubber? If so, we'd have 2 sources, and could send one to RP?

[DeepO]

No, that is the problem. The moment we settled, the deal with GoW was cancelled. If we would have sent rubber to RP before settling, it would have this effect, but nobody thought about it in time.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

In that case we can surely say to GoW:

As the recent Rubber transaction between us was very quickly anulled by the game on settling our own source, would it be reasonable to ask if the Rubber we had purchased could be sent instead to RP? We understand there may be a couple of turns less than the full twenty left on the deal, but if this is a problem a balancing sum could surely be arranged.

Some might argue that we could do without the second part - but it would seem cheeky to ask for 20 turns without acknowledging that some turns had already been supplied.

[vmxa1]

Why not just ask for ten turns and RP will cancel it at that time? They only need it to upgrade right?

[DeepO]

I like the message, CH.

vmxa, it has to be somewhat casual. The real intent is to check if GoW is willing to provide a resource they know is in their disadvantage when they want to attack. My guess is that if they are planning on an assault, they will curse, and provide it anyway. If they would deny us the deal, we know for certain that they are also en route for Stormia.

DeepO

[Theseus]

Originally posted by DeepO
No, that is the problem. The moment we settled, the deal with GoW was cancelled. If we would have sent rubber to RP before settling, it would have this effect, but nobody thought about it in time.

DeepO

That's a pity. I was not aware of this in MP... AFAIK in SP, imports continue even when a resource is later procured directly.

[DeepO]

I don't think so, T. If you've got a lux deal with an AI, and than somehow get the lux yourself, the deal cancels as well. There are exceptions, e.g. a lux for lux deal will keep their end of the bargain (so if you give ivory for silks, they will still receive silks but don't give ivory anymore), while a lux for gpt deal cancels... more than once did this create problems for me, where a deal was cancelled and I got a bad rep with the AIs. You don't get a rep-hit if you e.g. received a lux for a tech. Cancelling that deal doesn't cost the AI anything so they won't mind.

It may depend on your installation, but in PTWDG this happens for sure.

It's because this happens so seldomly that we didn't think about it before it happened... in general you don't go around in SP giving out rubber you receive from a civ, just moments before settling our own rubber resource

DeepO

[Krill]

Persoanlly I wonder how much the designers have gained from this game, simply knowing how you guys managed to abuse the system...

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What do you guys think of building a fortress 2 of whirlwind, and sticking 5 MI in it? It is the only place where ND can land in one turn, and those 5 MI could hopefully make ND think about attacking one of out coastal cities, which will have a lot higher defense (100% "Kitty" shelters, 50% city size (and I'm not sure about which cirties have walls...).


About GoW: what do people think about trying to get MZ onto our side by pointing out that it would not reflect well on us if ND/GWT won both the ISDG and PTWDG...