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**Aeson** · January 25, 2005, 00:27

I just checked the save again. The numbers for sabatoging production in Killdaria were actually for sabatoging production in Skulgaria. Killdaria is at 5412 for safely.

**Aeson** · January 25, 2005, 00:40

When did GoW mobilize? Either they started a prebuild before they mobilized or have they fought a fake war to get out of mobilization 5 turns ago. That number puts Killdaria at over 500 shields. The terrain could be up to 112spt (-corruption). So we can't beat them to the UN.

**notyoueither** · January 25, 2005, 02:12

Originally posted by DeepO
I was thinking on MPPing RP in game, but it would create another problem: when ND (or GoW) attacks RP, we declare war automatically... ND receives the ww bonus instead of us. We could prevent this by blockading the RP harbor with subs, so they have to go through us before being able to attack ND...

DeepO

Very good, if we have the subs...

and tell RP not to go there.

**notyoueither** · January 25, 2005, 02:15

Originally posted by DeepO
5. in case things go bad, what are we going to do?
I mean, assume we lose half our cities, do we have an option of e.g. packing all troops in boats, and give all cities to e.g. Vox (or Lego for all I care), meanwhile fighting our last battle on Bob?

DeepO

Give nothing. Beg nothing. Go barb. It is the only way.

**notyoueither** · January 25, 2005, 02:18

Originally posted by Aeson
ND may be planning to take out RP. If they have Lego's vote, and Lego has Vox's vote, ND wins if the vote is called and RP is gone. I can see how Vox would agree with Lego how to vote, and Lego would vote against GS and GoW.

I really don't like the Diplomatic option. I wouldn't want to win with it, and certainly don't want to lose to it. I think we can build the UN, needing only 8 turns to build it. That means ND or GoW would have to have at least 142spt to beat us. The cost to us is 8 MI at this point. I think we should build it. The only question I have is if the mobilization bug is helping us in Tempest? (And if it is helping GoW too...)

Build the freekin' thing and be done with it.

We are all playing the same game, even if not all the rules were known to anyone going in.

**notyoueither** · January 25, 2005, 02:21

Originally posted by Aeson
When did GoW mobilize? Either they started a prebuild before they mobilized or have they fought a fake war to get out of mobilization 5 turns ago. That number puts Killdaria at over 500 shields. The terrain could be up to 112spt (-corruption). So we can't beat them to the UN.

Damn. Will they hold a vote though?

**Aeson** · January 25, 2005, 05:51

I don't think GoW would hold a vote. They'd need a vote from Vox, which might happen. Then they'd need to get one other vote and eliminate a civ. I can't imagine Lego voting for GoW. We won't. RP won't. So that leaves ND. If ND is going to vote for GoW they would be capable of winning by other methods between them anyways.

GoW building the UN might be the best thing for us. If ND really is considering a Diplomatic victory they'd have to go through GoW instead of us to get it.

**DeepO** · January 25, 2005, 06:05

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
probably been mentioned, but we can ferry over conscripts to lego to go barb hunting.

Legoland is the first spot to create conscripts right now. As long as we aren't under attack, there is not really a point of drafting on Stormia (except perhaps in cities with no production anyway, e.g. Sufa)

DeepO

**DeepO** · January 25, 2005, 06:11

Originally posted by Aeson
~5 turns and we'll have a sentry net S from Lego, S from Stormia, and across from RP to Vox, with the interior verified surface ship free, that will allow us to run very low defense on the E coast away from the N and S edges.

great!

ND doesn't have enough navy to get to RP. We have several more BB and Subs coming online in the next couple turns. Within the next 3-4 turns I think we can have enough present to sink ND's fleet with 1 turn exposure, which they have to have to reach us. It would be 2-3 turn exposure to get to RP and if they headed out right now I think we could sink their 12 Transports before they got there.

It is one of the things I don't get. Why build marines, if you don't have the navy to protect the transports? Surely, marines would come last in the queue, as the navy needs positioning? This is one of the reasons why all of this might be a ruse... However there is another option: if ND's transports are already in position they could receive the GoW city next to RP for one turn, and use it to savely transport marines and everything else without exposure. Do we have scouts around in that region too?

DeepO

**DeepO** · January 25, 2005, 06:22

Originally posted by Aeson
ND may be planning to take out RP. If they have Lego's vote, and Lego has Vox's vote, ND wins if the vote is called and RP is gone. I can see how Vox would agree with Lego how to vote, and Lego would vote against GS and GoW.

It's one of the things to put on the list to ask GoW. They were confident Vox would vote for them, so maybe they have more information. It is of course one of the main reasons to take out Lego asap, at least if we don't put our navy in problems over it.

I really don't like the Diplomatic option. I wouldn't want to win with it, and certainly don't want to lose to it. I think we can build the UN, needing only 8 turns to build it. That means ND or GoW would have to have at least 142spt to beat us.

142 spt is a lot, even with nuke plants (which, as far as we know, they can't have yet) I can't remember I ever went this high in any game.... 100 spt is normal, but 142? But if the sabotage cost information is correct, we will see next turn how much spt exactly they are making there.

Even if I dont think they have one laying around, there is always the option of a GL. It hasn't been used though, or the sabotage cost would be ~10000 g.

The cost to us is 8 MI at this point. I think we should build it.

I agree, we can't risk not to do it.

The only question I have is if the mobilization bug is helping us in Tempest? (And if it is helping GoW too...)

how much spt is Tempest making in F1? >100 spt? If so, the mob bug is helping, and we should correct it by mining a tile, and irr it again. And we should ask Trip to check on Killdaria. This is too important, we can't win or let one win because of a bug we know is there.

DeepO

**DeepO** · January 25, 2005, 06:26

Originally posted by Aeson
I just checked the save again. The numbers for sabatoging production in Killdaria were actually for sabatoging production in Skulgaria. Killdaria is at 5412 for safely.

Damn. Do you know the distance as well? assuming a distance of 20, this means 5412-120 = 5292 shield cost, meaning 5292/(2*10)=264 shields present. I'm not sure if we can reach that

DeepO

**DeepO** · January 25, 2005, 06:33

cross posting as hell, but I don't have the time to read everything first. Sorry

Originally posted by Aeson
When did GoW mobilize?

long ago... something like 20 turns at least

Either they started a prebuild before they mobilized or have they fought a fake war to get out of mobilization 5 turns ago. That number puts Killdaria at over 500 shields. The terrain could be up to 112spt (-corruption). So we can't beat them to the UN.

No, you forget the factor of 'safely', meaning it is only half of that, see my last post. You can check for mob by right clicking on a tile in their territory, and seeing if the shields generated works out (so 4 spt on a hill, not 5). The city has to be producing a unit, though.
264 shields is possible to get in a city by switching in the build queue, after a civ defense prebuild (which is 200 shields, right?)

OTOH, is it so bad if GoW builds the UN?

DeepO

**DeepO** · January 25, 2005, 06:36

Originally posted by Aeson
I don't think GoW would hold a vote. They'd need a vote from Vox, which might happen. Then they'd need to get one other vote and eliminate a civ.

how does it work again, do you need the majority plus one votes? I mean, 2 out of 4 is not enough, right? Both Lego and RP are easy prey

GoW building the UN might be the best thing for us. If ND really is considering a Diplomatic victory they'd have to go through GoW instead of us to get it.

I agree. However we should make sure they do not get the mob bonus, as that would be cheating.

DeepO

**vmxa1** · January 25, 2005, 12:17

They cannot be sure that they can eliminate RP in a single turn, unless they have a spy on RP, can they?

They do not know that RP does not have a settler secured some place. Of course as usual we cannot get RP to react with any haste. I have not heard of their response to any of our recent inquiries.

**vmxa1** · January 25, 2005, 12:19

Check that, I see they say they are ready to settle on Legoland. Do we know that they can ferry units across safely now?

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The ND threat.

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