The Altera Centauri collection has been brought up to date by Darsnan. It comprises every decent scenario he's been able to find anywhere on the web, going back over 20 years.
25 themes/skins/styles are now available to members. Check the select drop-down at the bottom-left of each page.
Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
Originally posted by notyoueither
Question. How close are we to being able to gut ND?
I think we could hit them with a pretty decent force in 6 turns. I have a couple ideas that might work, but as usual everything looks a couple turns behind when it would work. We'd need to decide by the turn after next to swing it.
If there aren't drastic changes in diplomacy with ND (or GoW.. we should try to get a trade going with GoW for Uranium I think.. works to get us Uranium perhaps, and better yet makes it look like we are backing down from ND) very shortly I think we have no choice but to hit ND. If we wait for nukes, we'll lose (badly) even a 1v1 fight. With Uranium where it is, and ND so obviously trying to pick a fight with us, we can't sit around and wait.
We have most of our Transports rounding the S cape of Stormia in 2 turns. At that point we have a minimum of 3 turns to hit an ND city with them, and 5 straggler Transports a turn behind. That gives us a double Transport chain and 8 Transports that would have to be loaded for 3 turns. We could also build 4-5 more Transports in that timeframe that could go with the main fleet (carrying MI) and/or increase the size of our chain. We also have 2 3/3 Galleys which can be upgraded, one which could sail with the main fleet, and one which could serve as distraction or help out on the chain.
It doesn't do us any good to hit ND if they haven't loaded up their own Transports with units though I'm afraid. They have an ROP with GoW, so they probably have an even distribution of units in their cities at this point, though at last check they had 1 unit in one city and 13 in another... so they may be playing stupid.
The timing would have to be very tight. We need to hit ND hard before they can get Manhattan built (idealy destroying their prebuild for it). We also need to provoke ND into loading up their own Transports the turn before we hit them.
Because of the timeframe we'd have all our Tanks and Settlers (64 units) onboard in 2 turns, and then need a round of Marines, probably a couple Marines from high production cities before a round of every city building a Marine. Then we can only go if we have a target that 16 Marines could take, and we'd have Naval bombardment, and could have some Bombers too (would have to build the Carriers because our 2 current ones are out of the picture).
We'd have to sink several ND ships for it to work, and then get them to think that was all we were doing, but make them mad enough that they would then sail to hit us.
It would take a bit of magic, but if we say/do the right things it could work. This attack on RP's Lego cities is perfect actually. We go with "operation reciprocity" (I'll pretend I'm Jack Ryan if no one else wants the job... ) where in exchange for those cities we sink their navy. Then we offer them peace, ask about the trade deal (if it hasn't gone through by then), and post publicly that in our eyes this war is over, and hope that now that GS has shown it won't put up with ND bullying that ND and GS can live peacefully. Talk up the "trade" of 7 (probably will be more next turn) worthless cities in exchange for ND's navy, and gloat about how acceptable that trade was in our eyes.
Maybe something about "The Stormian Republic has decided to save a part of our common world as an international aquatic park without any humans for the future of the world. This great park is placed in the straights between Stormia and Neu Demogyptica so that both peoples can enjoy the natural beauty preserved therein. Let's hope all humans see what great idea this is."
Turn 0: where we are
Turn 1: Play nice and meek with ND about the "invasion" of RP. Try for Uranium deal with GoW.
Turn 2: Main group of Transports are in Typhoon.
Turn 3: Load up main group, set sail.
Turn 4: Bomb ND's navy with our Bombers. Sink ND's navy with our ships, move main group into position 4 tiles from New Mavsu, Candri, and Pica. Move Carrier(s) into bombing position 10 tiles from New Mavsu, Candri, and Pica. Set up chain. Offer ND peace. Whine, bargain, threaten, sell our souls, just make ND think we don't want all out war with them. Maybe set up a diversion up between Luxilou/Monsoon (only 1 turn crossing from city to city).
Turn 5: Finish off Marine force. Chain them to main group. Attack New Mavsu. Gut as many cities as we can with ~60 Tanks.
All in all something like this is a longshot to work out. I'd guess it's about 1 in 5 we do major damage to ND cities. Mostly likely we don't take a coastal cityNavally we are much better off. Even if we can land we should be able to sink ND's navy and even a good portion of their invasion if they do sail.
As always, we set it up so that at any point we have critical failure, the following steps don't need to be made. It might work better if we bump the timeline a turn or two more though. We'd get another Carrier in place, 2 more Transports in the main group, could probably fit in another Carrier so that all our Bombers can be brought to bear on. We can bomb their fleet from Carriers and use the ****ty reporting method that ND used to keep them from knowing where we bombed from... The best we can hope for is we hit them the turn they would get Manhattan built. That way they are more likely to set sail to hit us, getting in position for a nuke build, use the nuke next turn (target next to the city instead of the city itself, to leave the surrounding roads... we will have pillaged these of course), sail into our city (they need to be at sea to get a rolling invasion) and gut us themselves.
Maybe a long shot, but at least this is an idea we can start on. I do have a couple of questions first, before answering your post:
1. Where is GoW in all of this?
2. Can we somehow get rocketry from ND in time? They've got it, so they should give it to us
3. Can we somehow claim our retaliation, but let them agree to give back the RP-territory? Do we still have troops close to Legoland, or a chain, so that we can attack their cities on Legoland as well?
4. How are we going to handle the dyes? Give the city to Vox perhaps? RP is out of the question...
5. Can we fit RP in somehow? If so, can we direct them right now to get ready, so that they do not arrive to the battle turns after the fighting is done?
It would be great if we can get them to set sail with a decent force before we take it to them, but I am all for doing it your way. We do not have any real allies and they may have.
RP is not going to be able to carry its weight and could put us in danger. So why not take a few good shots at ND, we have no love lost with them anyway.
I do think a few more turns makes sense, we are stil in Mob and can get the most from those turns.
Originally posted by Aeson
We have most of our Transports rounding the S cape of Stormia in 2 turns. At that point we have a minimum of 3 turns to hit an ND city with them, and 5 straggler Transports a turn behind. That gives us a double Transport chain and 8 Transports that would have to be loaded for 3 turns. We could also build 4-5 more Transports in that timeframe that could go with the main fleet (carrying MI) and/or increase the size of our chain. We also have 2 3/3 Galleys which can be upgraded, one which could sail with the main fleet, and one which could serve as distraction or help out on the chain.
Only problem I've got with this: ND has a spy, and we can assume GoW has one too. Which means that any new transports or marines are instantly detected. No surprise...
It doesn't do us any good to hit ND if they haven't loaded up their own Transports with units though I'm afraid.
Agree. We need their units in the sea. Could we lure them in other ways?
They have an ROP with GoW, so they probably have an even distribution of units in their cities at this point, though at last check they had 1 unit in one city and 13 in another... so they may be playing stupid.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but moving MI over RR and fortifying doesn't truely fortifies them until a turn later, right? If they move their units, they will lose out on 50% of the defense bonus. I always thought this is part of the reason why the attacks on Legoland went rather well (except for Abilene)
We'd have to sink several ND ships for it to work, and then get them to think that was all we were doing, but make them mad enough that they would then sail to hit us.
only possibility to make this work, is to be absolutely sure that after our initial strike, they can not move ships and spot our transports en route. Also, if they have fighters, we need to stay out of recon too. Not easy... and if GoW has subs around and spots us, the surprise is also gone.
It would take a bit of magic, but if we say/do the right things it could work. This attack on RP's Lego cities is perfect actually. We go with "operation reciprocity" (I'll pretend I'm Jack Ryan if no one else wants the job... ) where in exchange for those cities we sink their navy. Then we offer them peace, ask about the trade deal (if it hasn't gone through by then), and post publicly that in our eyes this war is over, and hope that now that GS has shown it won't put up with ND bullying that ND and GS can live peacefully. Talk up the "trade" of 7 (probably will be more next turn) worthless cities in exchange for ND's navy, and gloat about how acceptable that trade was in our eyes.
You get the job, first of all. I'm not up to it. I do think the trade deal has to be done first, as there is no way ND is going to give us rocketry once we attack them. Further, I know something that could piss them off enough to keep ND going after we attack them: we demand that in exchange for all the lost lives on Legoland, we get to control an ND city. Say Borcem. We get it for 1 turn, sell everything, draft where possible, destroy the UN or whatever wonder they build, and give it to RP or Vox. Or ND even. Or disband the city. It will never be accepted, but by being cocky and play over confident, we might trigger them into going after us in full, meaning loading their units and starting an invasion.
Turn 0: where we are
Turn 1: Play nice and meek with ND about the "invasion" of RP. Try for Uranium deal with GoW.
Add to this: get rocketry.
Turn 2: Main group of Transports are in Typhoon.
Can they be unspotted if left 1 turn out of the city, without disrupting the rest of the plans? Everything in the city can be spied...
Turn 3: Load up main group, set sail.
Turn 4: Bomb ND's navy with our Bombers. Sink ND's navy with our ships, move main group into position 4 tiles from New Mavsu, Candri, and Pica. Move Carrier(s) into bombing position 10 tiles from New Mavsu, Candri, and Pica. Set up chain. Offer ND peace. Whine, bargain, threaten, sell our souls, just make ND think we don't want all out war with them. Maybe set up a diversion up between Luxilou/Monsoon (only 1 turn crossing from city to city).
The problem is that our main group can be spotted by any freshly build ship. Sadly very little to do about it, but I think that diminishes our chances greatly. If they are within cultural borders (or next to it), it's even worse.
I would definately set up a diversion if at all possible.
Turn 5: Finish off Marine force. Chain them to main group. Attack New Mavsu. Gut as many cities as we can with ~60 Tanks.
This is a big if. With the number of marines, we don't have a good chance of pulling it off, especially not against MI. If this gets the plan, we better come up with an alternative from the get go, so we do not have to spend nights thinking up new plans right before invasion.
All in all something like this is a longshot to work out. I'd guess it's about 1 in 5 we do major damage to ND cities. Mostly likely we don't take a coastal cityNavally we are much better off. Even if we can land we should be able to sink ND's navy and even a good portion of their invasion if they do sail.
I agree, our navy could save us here. However, this could change very quickly, ND has the ability to rush a lot of ships in a short time. And, if we plan on building marines at the very last minute, this also means we won't have the opportunity to build ships for a couple of turns. That balance can change very swiftly. Maybe we should make navy a priority: after all with enough ships, we can keep them from invading in force. And while I would see an invasion of ND as a sure way of giving victory in this game to GoW, I would prefer to keep Stormia Stormian
As always, we set it up so that at any point we have critical failure, the following steps don't need to be made. It might work better if we bump the timeline a turn or two more though. We'd get another Carrier in place, 2 more Transports in the main group, could probably fit in another Carrier so that all our Bombers can be brought to bear on. We can bomb their fleet from Carriers and use the ****ty reporting method that ND used to keep them from knowing where we bombed from...
Moving back has one big cost: ND is producing about double the shields as we are. While we can finetune our forces, they can put a lot of units in the field. However, maybe we can camouflage it a little: by drafting MI, we could give the impression to be building on our defense, while in reality marines and carriers are build 1 turn later.
The best we can hope for is we hit them the turn they would get Manhattan built.
Question: GoW is about to lose a very costly prebuild to the UN. What are they going to build? My guess is Manhattan...
That way they are more likely to set sail to hit us, getting in position for a nuke build, use the nuke next turn (target next to the city instead of the city itself, to leave the surrounding roads... we will have pillaged these of course), sail into our city (they need to be at sea to get a rolling invasion) and gut us themselves.
If ND is going for Manhattan, they will build their first nuke that same turn. They can play this game, no doubt about it. And they maybe know more backdoors than us, so the hack-into-buildqueue thing is something they would most certainly use if it benefits them.
Originally posted by DeepO
Only problem I've got with this: ND has a spy, and we can assume GoW has one too. Which means that any new transports or marines are instantly detected. No surprise...
The plan would be to have most of the Marines built on the turn we hit ND. If we can chain 2-3 Transports then that gives us 16-24 Marines. A Marine or three earlier shouldn't tip them off, and if it does it would point to long range plans rather than short. The rest would need to be timed to complete the turn of the invasion and then chained across.
We might even work it into our current discussions. Get a limit on the number of Marines, say 20, that way no major damage can be done and ND doesn't have to disband units. Limit the number of Transports too. Then ND would be more likely to see us just building up (slowly) to the limitations if they see that we've built a couple Marines and Transports. WHen the mass of Marines are built they would have been applied before ND gets the save.
We need their units in the sea. Could we lure them in other ways?
We could open up landing spots for them. Right now there are 10 MI on each one turn landing site, which means Marines aren't going to cut it. If we withdraw those... make posturing towards reclaiming Lego and driving off ND... then perhaps we can make them think we are diverting to Lego and are weak at home. Or they could see it as a trap.
It might be best to reserve one of our lagging transports to take some units over to Lego and at least make some sort of front there. Even if it's just 8 MI fortifying on a Hill or Mountain over there (and cleaning up Barb camps if they survive for the gpt).
only possibility to make this work, is to be absolutely sure that after our initial strike, they can not move ships and spot our transports en route. Also, if they have fighters, we need to stay out of recon too. Not easy... and if GoW has subs around and spots us, the surprise is also gone.
No way to be sure, but if they spot us we will know it easily enough and can sail back to stormia. At that point we really wouldn't have lost anything by trying.
You get the job, first of all. I'm not up to it. I do think the trade deal has to be done first, as there is no way ND is going to give us rocketry once we attack them.
Question is if we even want Rocketry. ND wouldn't expect us to attack and deny ourselves the opportunity to get the tech. As long as they are holding that over our heads, we have an added suprise factor.
If we have Rocketry, what do we do with it? We don't know that we'll even have Aluminum, which only gives us Jet Fighters and (virtually useless to us IMO) Cruise missles. And we don't have Uranium to worry about Space Flight either.
Can they be unspotted if left 1 turn out of the city, without disrupting the rest of the plans? Everything in the city can be spied...
Typhoon would be about 4th or 5th on the list of cities ND would want to spy on. They were pushing for Rocketry, now will probably be pushing for Space Flight for tactical nukes. They haven't upgraded the vast majority of their Infantry, which denotes that they don't have cash to throw around. I think the odds of ND spying on Typhoon are minimal, and less than them slipping a sub past us to spot our ships out of port.
The problem is that our main group can be spotted by any freshly build ship. Sadly very little to do about it, but I think that diminishes our chances greatly. If they are within cultural borders (or next to it), it's even worse.
I would definately set up a diversion if at all possible.
Yah, gotta give them a target up N further that they'd sail to. Even then it's not very good odds. Most of the time our invasion would fail here I'd think. Nothing that can be done about that though except give ND as many reasons as possible to think N.
This is a big if. With the number of marines, we don't have a good chance of pulling it off, especially not against MI. If this gets the plan, we better come up with an alternative from the get go, so we do not have to spend nights thinking up new plans right before invasion.
It's pretty simple actually. If they have more MI than we can handle in the target cities, we go home. No alternate plans are going to work because once they are aware of the Transports they become ineffective. If you don't like those odds, they are at least better than the 0% we have to break through if we don't sail. And sinking ND's navy is worth something in any case.
I agree, our navy could save us here. However, this could change very quickly, ND has the ability to rush a lot of ships in a short time. And, if we plan on building marines at the very last minute, this also means we won't have the opportunity to build ships for a couple of turns. That balance can change very swiftly. Maybe we should make navy a priority: after all with enough ships, we can keep them from invading in force. And while I would see an invasion of ND as a sure way of giving victory in this game to GoW, I would prefer to keep Stormia Stormian
ND can't beat us navally unless they are willing to lose the tech race to GoW hands down. Cash rushing is very expensive, and we have the coastal cities and coastal production to compete with ND, especially nearby the straights. That all changes with nukes though.
Navy has been a priority and will certainly continue to be. The only other things to build are the Marines.
Question: GoW is about to lose a very costly prebuild to the UN. What are they going to build? My guess is Manhattan...
Probably. We can hope that ND doesn't give them Rocketry before then and they lose the prebuild or settle for SETI.
If GoW builds Manhattan, then we can't get there before ND can build nukes, but might still get there before ND does build it's first nuke. If not, well, nothing that can be done about that. If ND puts out to sea we know it's coming.
If ND is going for Manhattan, they will build their first nuke that same turn. They can play this game, no doubt about it. And they maybe know more backdoors than us, so the hack-into-buildqueue thing is something they would most certainly use if it benefits them.
On an abstract level, they seem to be incredulous of the fact that if GS and ND fight GoW will win. We're here planning to hit ND because they're backing us into a corner where we have to fight them just to stay relevent. Putting together an invasion force on our doorstep, blocking us from a Uranium deposit on our side of the border agreement, attacking the cities we gave to an ally. It's pretty stupid considering their alternatives and what they have gained from this. We are without Uranium, and if GoW were to trade it to us, ND would have gained absolutely nothing so far.
ND has every option open to them at this point, being the leader in land area, potential production, standing military, tech capability... and they are choosing an option that is probably the most likely thing they could do to lead to them to losing the game.
From a standpoint of game mechanics I am not impressed with their play throughout. There is no reason why we should even be in this game at this point, tech wise, militarily, whatever. We don't have the natural resources to compete, and it was only by outperforming both GoW and ND both that we could have kept them from claiming Bob together. I wasn't here for the defining moments of the war, but it sounded like it was pretty close for a while, which considering the circumstances is almost laughable. ND or GoW (given Iron as they were), playing their starts anywhere near efficient, should have been able to handle us at that point without the help of the other.
That said, I was allowing that ND would build their first nuke(s) the turn Manhattan finishes. Which is why we'd want to hit them the turn before. That way they'd have sailed to a point where they could land rolling units in the city(s) they nuked.
Originally posted by Aeson
The plan would be to have most of the Marines built on the turn we hit ND. If we can chain 2-3 Transports then that gives us 16-24 Marines. A Marine or three earlier shouldn't tip them off, and if it does it would point to long range plans rather than short. The rest would need to be timed to complete the turn of the invasion and then chained across.
You're right. Building up slowly at a pace of e.g. 2-3 marines per turn would indicate long term plans. We can even start on this right now if we want to. Last time, we built marines for 7 or 8 turns on full pace, and that was against infs... everyone knows we spent some 50 marines against Lego, and will expect us having around the same kind of numbers before attacking. If we have 10 marines laying around, nobody will bother defending their coasts harder.
We might even work it into our current discussions. Get a limit on the number of Marines, say 20, that way no major damage can be done and ND doesn't have to disband units. Limit the number of Transports too. Then ND would be more likely to see us just building up (slowly) to the limitations if they see that we've built a couple Marines and Transports. WHen the mass of Marines are built they would have been applied before ND gets the save.
Nah. Too cumbersome. ND nor us are great negotiators, so let's do what we are best. Posturing, threatening, provoking them to sail are all things we can easily do, but negotiating a big complex deal won't ever work.
We could open up landing spots for them. Right now there are 10 MI on each one turn landing site, which means Marines aren't going to cut it. If we withdraw those... make posturing towards reclaiming Lego and driving off ND... then perhaps we can make them think we are diverting to Lego and are weak at home. Or they could see it as a trap.
Viewed from their perspective: if I was ND, and I noticed that a particular landing spot got from 10 MI to 0 in a turn, there is no way I'm setting foot on it. However, there is no need to be so extreme. We've got to start fearing tacticals, which can wipe out a stack of 10 MI. So it makes sense to spread our defenses. By diminishing those 10 MI to e.g. 4 or 5, we give them something to think about. And it doesn't look like a trap either.
Posturing towards Lego is definately a good idea in combination with this.
It might be best to reserve one of our lagging transports to take some units over to Lego and at least make some sort of front there. Even if it's just 8 MI fortifying on a Hill or Mountain over there (and cleaning up Barb camps if they survive for the gpt).
Well, I was thinking about that, yes. How much can we miss in troops, without hurting ourselves, while starting to pretend we focus on Lego? I was also thinking about RP... they've got some troops en route (not much, but at least some), by letting them land on Legoland, and give them some backup, we could create a nice diversion to ND / GoW. If RP does this, we better tell them this turn... (I'll send a message to Togas in a moment)
No way to be sure, but if they spot us we will know it easily enough and can sail back to stormia. At that point we really wouldn't have lost anything by trying.
That's true. And it is about the only alternative we've got, I suppose.
Provided we get rocketry, couldn't we get tacticals to work for us? These can't be chained, right?
Question is if we even want Rocketry. ND wouldn't expect us to attack and deny ourselves the opportunity to get the tech. As long as they are holding that over our heads, we have an added suprise factor.
For that reason, and for that reason alone do I agree with you. However, we've invested a lot in rocketry (over 1000 gold already), so this would be a big price to pay. It all depends if we even consider this game to play on after a war with ND. In the future, we need rocketry to win. OTOH, if we have a war now, we're handing the game to GoW on a silver platter.
If we have Rocketry, what do we do with it? We don't know that we'll even have Aluminum, which only gives us Jet Fighters and (virtually useless to us IMO) Cruise missles. And we don't have Uranium to worry about Space Flight either.
Long term benefits, and tacticals perhaps. That's about it. Cruise missiles aren't going to do anything, and while jets might be handy when countering bombers (ND has a lot of those), I don't see us building a competing air force before ND can use those bombers.
Typhoon would be about 4th or 5th on the list of cities ND would want to spy on. They were pushing for Rocketry, now will probably be pushing for Space Flight for tactical nukes. They haven't upgraded the vast majority of their Infantry, which denotes that they don't have cash to throw around. I think the odds of ND spying on Typhoon are minimal, and less than them slipping a sub past us to spot our ships out of port.
Ok. Spying may not be the biggest threat. I don't agree on the money, though. They only started this war their last turn, after we played ours. Which means that they could very well have upgraded every inf, as there is no longer a point in trying to keep their numbers hidden from us. Also, they do no need to upgrade their infs if they feel safe: only the 1-turn crossings need to be protected. So... ND can very well be sitting on 10,000 in cash...
After all, where would all the cash have gone to? They spent a full era without research, gaining techs at favourable prices.
Yah, gotta give them a target up N further that they'd sail to. Even then it's not very good odds. Most of the time our invasion would fail here I'd think. Nothing that can be done about that though except give ND as many reasons as possible to think N.
a possible idea: when sinking their fleet, we could use bombers to start softening up their defenses. Stuff like destroying RRs to Northern cities, or targeting hills/mountains within our range to prevent reinforcements... anything small which doesn't cost much might work.
ND can't beat us navally unless they are willing to lose the tech race to GoW hands down. Cash rushing is very expensive, and we have the coastal cities and coastal production to compete with ND, especially nearby the straights. That all changes with nukes though.
Who says this is not a joint ND-GoW mission? Plus, at any rate ND should have the biggest economy of the two, and as said above they might very well be sitting on a heap of cash.
If GoW builds Manhattan, then we can't get there before ND can build nukes, but might still get there before ND does build it's first nuke. If not, well, nothing that can be done about that. If ND puts out to sea we know it's coming.
Yeah. They could take the Monsoon crossing though.
On an abstract level, they seem to be incredulous of the fact that if GS and ND fight GoW will win. We're here planning to hit ND because they're backing us into a corner where we have to fight them just to stay relevent. Putting together an invasion force on our doorstep, blocking us from a Uranium deposit on our side of the border agreement, attacking the cities we gave to an ally. It's pretty stupid considering their alternatives and what they have gained from this. We are without Uranium, and if GoW were to trade it to us, ND would have gained absolutely nothing so far.
They have done things in the past which didn't play out to their advantage in the larger picture... or at least which didn't seem so at first. But don't forget that with all the talk about our ability to defend a homeland from rolling invasions, they might think we will try to do that, and don't even consider the idea of us invading them. After all, it is a bit against all odds... us, going after a larger team with better defenses, we should be scared and hide in a corner. Also, we never mentioned in public that Lego should have put a navy out to us instead of trying to fend us off.
ND has every option open to them at this point, being the leader in land area, potential production, standing military, tech capability... and they are choosing an option that is probably the most likely thing they could do to lead to them to losing the game.
well, if GoW is in on this... Plus even on their own is it worth a shot. They already have the tech buildings in place as they have spent the last era building up their production and unis in stead of units. Right now, the only thing left to build is military (which is very different from GoW or us). If they figure they are safe, both from GoW and invasion, they can spend those units 'for free'. And the best way of keeping them invasion free, is invading us (they could think)
From a standpoint of game mechanics I am not impressed with their play throughout. There is no reason why we should even be in this game at this point, tech wise, militarily, whatever. We don't have the natural resources to compete, and it was only by outperforming both GoW and ND both that we could have kept them from claiming Bob together. I wasn't here for the defining moments of the war, but it sounded like it was pretty close for a while, which considering the circumstances is almost laughable. ND or GoW (given Iron as they were), playing their starts anywhere near efficient, should have been able to handle us at that point without the help of the other.
Aeson, even if we lose the game, we will always be the best team in my eyes. Especially on a game mechanics level. We deserve a break given all the bad luck (e.g. let Bob be without alu, and give all the sources to us for a change). But ND didn't play bad, and over the time has changed their players a lot. Bischop was a ISDGer, right? The ISDG has finished... fresh blood. And the GWT team wasn't afraid to explore the limits of the game mechanics at all. I wouldn't be surprised if ND is deliberately using the mob bug to finish their prebuild earlier.
That said, I was allowing that ND would build their first nuke(s) the turn Manhattan finishes. Which is why we'd want to hit them the turn before. That way they'd have sailed to a point where they could land rolling units in the city(s) they nuked.
Yes, but you assume that they would go for the UN. I can see them switching to Manhattan right before building the UN, and finishing nukes that same turn. Which means we're maybe a few turns away from being invaded, instead of 5 or so.
I don't think that ND is capable of 4 turn modern research yet. We investigated a few turns ago and ND had something like 1300g and was running 90% research. Someone got Rocketry last turn (though I may have missed it earlier, but I think it was last turn), which would put them at a minimum of 4 turns until nukes. I'd guess they are probably more like 6 turns at 100%, so could have it in 5 more turns.
I also have been checking every city's sabatoge costs and ND doesn't seem to have any largish prebuilds going yet. GoW on the other hand looks like it has a couple in addition to the UN build.
Oh... right. Totally forgot the investigation. While in theory it could be possible that e.g. Lego keeps their treasury, I highly doubt it.
40g per upgrade from I to MI gives 32 possible upgrades. And 1300 g is an extra 4 DDs. That's not the worst. But... when stopping research completely, they can probably pull off some 1000 gpt.
I wonder where all that cash has gone to, as they must have had cash to burn.
Aeson: I put the Gow Prebuilds down as Nuke plants, attempting t get those cties to 100spt...
And Rocketry might be the reasaon for ND invading us. What if there is no AL on Bob, but there is some on western legoland...kicking RP off Lego at this moment in time does not make sense, you're right, but taking out a civ to get a resource that you don't have? Same as us, Lego and Rubber.
You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.
Nah, there has to be aluminium on Bob. However, I wouldn't be surprised it Stormia misses another vital resource, and Legoland has plenty (or at least one source). But whatever the reason, alu is ad most a nice extra, and won't be the bigger reason.
My best guess is that they want to lure us to Legoland, and get an easy quick victory on RP before they get any troops over there. We should probably play into that by sending some troops to Lego, giving the impression that we're lacking defense in our South. It's one of the best baits we can lay for ND, while perhaps drawing some troops of them to Legoland.
If GoW are to have one rival remaining, it makes more sense for that to be the small civ on another continent than the huge one on their own.
So, why would MZ be working with ND on this one? He might see the use in an ND-GS war (allowing GoW to surge ahead) but he should also see a danger in us being eliminated.
Have we lost our rubber too? I don't see we can afford to offer GoW much, but seeing as they let ND onto Legoland in the first place, perhaps they owe us something - ie Uranium (if they have a spare). Also I think we did pay for rubber we never got due to our own source.
I remember MZ saying that ND where about 20 turns behinnd GoW in infrastructure, because ND spent tons on defence after the Boban war. That puts them about 40 turns beind us, right?
You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.
) where in exchange for those cities we sink their navy. Then we offer them peace, ask about the trade deal (if it hasn't gone through by then), and post publicly that in our eyes this war is over, and hope that now that GS has shown it won't put up with ND bullying that ND and GS can live peacefully. Talk up the "trade" of 7 (probably will be more next turn) worthless cities in exchange for ND's navy, and gloat about how acceptable that trade was in our eyes.
Tweet
Comment