The ND threat.

[DeepO]

I'm not sure on the threat of ND as opposed to us. If GoW would like a backstab operation, there is very little what can keep them from doing that to ND. They can't backstab us. Plus, our reputation is in our disadvantage, I think that even if we are smaller and weaker, GoW will still consider us at least as dangerous as ND.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we still had our rubber resource. Without ND attacking our city, it remains ours. And while I agree that GoW still owes us something for the rubber we aren't getting, I wouldn't be to upfront with them on it. It might tick them off. After all, the deal has ended, and they did help us at a time when we needed it... anything more is a favour from them, not the repaying of a debt.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Krill
I remember MZ saying that ND where about 20 turns behinnd GoW in infrastructure, because ND spent tons on defence after the Boban war. That puts them about 40 turns beind us, right?

First of all, that tons of defense after the Bobian war is very relative. We had more units... but weaker ones. Further, we lost more than 20-turns of production to the Lego war (and by us I mean both us and GoW), so that advantage is gone. And lastly, ND has double our production.

I think, infrastructure-wise, we're looking at a gap of some 15 turns right now... ND being in front. Hoover is helping us a lot in this respect, and so would the Internet (denial purposes mostly). But right now they must have more buildings than us, and aren't so bothered to build only units.

Don't forget, we only have 1 bank and 5-6 unis IIRC. Some cities don't even have a library or market. And we need more troops soon too...

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

So perhaps a straight question to GoW - how much for 20 turns of Uranium?

I haven't had a reply from MZ from the probe so we don't have any reaction to go by other than the public statement. Do we want to try and get them on our side?

[DeepO]

CH, we might want that, however give them time to respond. I would not post any direct questions to them yet. Right now, all we can do is to ask for some ideas, for their opinion, for where they stand in this war. It is too soon to ask them for support, we have to know more about their interest in the war.

If you don't get anything over the next day or so, another message should be sent. But still, keep it friendly and inquisitive, not asking for support. To the outside, we should still remain an image of not knowing how to respond to ND, and maybe even undecided on how to react to such a clear provocation.

DeepO

[Aeson]

I think it's a good idea to ask GoW at least if they'd be interested in a trade of Uranium, Rubber, and Aluminum if we don't have it. We can trade our claim to Lego territory and Miniaturization towards the deal. I doubt they would trade us Uranium, but we might convince them it's in their best interest. It also could help paint the picture to ND that we are backing down from their bullying.

If there is a 3 way nuclear power struggle, mutual annihilation exists as any 2 powers going at each other means the third becomes the only nuclear power left. Of course if they plan on nuking ND into the stone age and think they won't get nuked back then they won't go for that.

If they don't see it that way, the possibility that ND hits Domination by taking Stormia in a cake-walk aided by nukes might convince them. If ND takes a big hit when they hit us, it helps GoW. If ND doesn't lose anything, then GoW is in trouble.

[DeepO]

GoW has another option. Legoland is nearly unprotected. If GoW seizes it, and attacks ND, they won't be far from domination themselves. But, I think that to a certain extent they are more focused on using nukes, than they are to winning this game... you may very well be right.

I'm sure that GoW knows that the best they can do is to let ND and us fight it out, while they wait for an opportunity. So, no need to tell them that. And I'm prett sure that they have some kind of a plan on how to proceed to. If at all possible, I would like to hear from them before we ask for resources. Also, hearing from RP on the exact situation would also be nice. We do have the luxury of having the time to sniff them out a little first, so let's try that first, and only ask for something in a few days (before we play our turn, obviously)

DeepO

[DeepO]

BTW, I asked RP to hold for now. I think that our strategy towards them would be to let them carry a big portion of their troops towards Legoland, right? They have conqs, and a few defenders on the way... are these going to do any good if deployed on Bob? On Legoland, they are more there to tie up forces than anything else, so we might need to time them for maximum gain.

Any ideas on RP before they play their turn?

DeepO

[vmxa1]

MZ has made an interesting notice.

[Aeson]

Just make sure RP knows not to block our ports with their Transports. We have 2 Transports in Hurricane which they blockaded in last turn, and twice now they've gotten in the way of us chaining Tanks into cities.

We have a BB finishing in Hurricane next turn and it will be leaving port next turn whether RP is still there or not.

Because of turn order, RP's troops can't do us any good on Bob, so they should continue to Lego.

[DeepO]

okay, gotcha. I'll send a message to Togas. That blockade is just stupid... I didn't see it or would have warned them, but they should have spotted it themselves.

DeepO

[DeepO]

To add to the list of things to ask GoW: lux. We are going to lose 3 lux if we get attacked, or attack ND. A couple of those should be possible to acquire from GoW.

The lux are going to be a problem if ND attacks us, BTW. losing 3 of them is a lot, I'm not sure if the WW bonus would offset that.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Hey... another idea we have to check. ND is certainly provoking us, and GoW has proclaimed their neutrality. However, doesn't GoW have a MPP with ND?

We need to check this as well. Even if GoW would stay out of the fight initially, we should try to avoid that the moment we attack ND we're facing another enemy. That in itself is enough reason for ND to attack RP!

It would be perfect for GoW, come to think of it. They only enter the battle the moment that the first battle is over, with the biggest losses. To offset the threat we can do a couple of things:

1. talk to GoW
2. if a MPP is in place, argue that ND is the agressor here
3. when we attack ND, RP needs to disband the city opposing Port Isolation so GoW can't create a second front.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Reply from MZ.

[DeepO]

something to be included in reply to MZ:

- MPP with ND?
- Uranium not in our hands? If they feel that way too, we have little option than to go out in a blaze of glory right now, before other teams get nukes and we are denied both nukes and the SS.
- Lego hunting: we need to get the last Lego settler. Attacking RP means that ND only needs Lego's and Vox' votes in the UN to win. Without Lego, they will have to destroy RP, and either one of us (very unlikely)
- resources question, a.o. would they supply uranium to us (for a price of course)
- lux question
- intention: we will take back our territory on Legoland. And if at all possible, we will give it back to RP as well, as it is of no use to us (but can't just hand it over to ND, obviously).
- Also: ask how they would feel if we attack the ND cities on GoW's side of Legoland. It could be arranged to give the territory back to GoW perhaps, but seeing as ND has no intention of accepting our sovereignity (sp?), their presence on Legoland is a direct threat to us.
- maybe a last point to make is that we simply can't let this happen, and must in some form or another retaliate. This is more than a small provocation. We complained for their occupancy of our uranium source on Legoland as well (otherwise the site would have been settled a couple of turns ago), which they simply ignored. But this can't go by unavenged.
- maybe good to mention that ND has picked its timing well, as they are currently in our debts tech wise, and if we attack them, we would be the ones who officially broke the treaty. In spirit, they are the bad guys here, and their honor in agreements is only official.

Overall, I would give the impression that we are forced, and have no options left. We also accept that counter-attacking will mean we give the victory to GoW, or worse ND, but ratter that than being overrun silently. If they can mediate a truce where we get our holdings back, together with compensation we would consider it, but it seems unlikely since they are clearly going to war.

DeepO

[Krill]

• GoW: What if ND finish Manhattan, and build the nukes, as planned. But what if they then hit GoW instead of us? Even with Manhattan built we can't build any nukes without Uranium. If ND took out the Uranium, with a Nuke, and took the FP core (Yellowknife?) and the majorty oof GoWs Carrier fleet, then ND have won the game. Nothing we can do, as they don't even need to invade us, just settle Legoland, and rush Temples. GoW can't pilage ND without their carrier fleet/s either

I was just wondering what would happen if the above scenario were played out...