The ND threat.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Krill

About GoW: what do people think about trying to get MZ onto our side by pointing out that it would not reflect well on us if ND/GWT won both the ISDG and PTWDG...

Yes, this has been mentioned. We might well ask whether GoW have a plan to stop ND rubbing Apolyton's nose in it again.

[Cort Haus]

I think ND have had this game too easy. An easy Bobian war (superior units, land, resources and supply capability) - exploiting GAUL for cheap tech, free land off GoW on Lego - getting Lego's vote, probably having GoW's help in attacking GS.

I'd be quite disappointed in MZ if he helps ND win - though having said that I'd also want GoW to lose as a punishment for backstabbing us!

[Theseus]

Originally posted by DeepO
I don't think so, T. If you've got a lux deal with an AI, and than somehow get the lux yourself, the deal cancels as well. There are exceptions, e.g. a lux for lux deal will keep their end of the bargain (so if you give ivory for silks, they will still receive silks but don't give ivory anymore), while a lux for gpt deal cancels... more than once did this create problems for me, where a deal was cancelled and I got a bad rep with the AIs. You don't get a rep-hit if you e.g. received a lux for a tech. Cancelling that deal doesn't cost the AI anything so they won't mind.

It may depend on your installation, but in PTWDG this happens for sure.

It's because this happens so seldomly that we didn't think about it before it happened... in general you don't go around in SP giving out rubber you receive from a civ, just moments before settling our own rubber resource

DeepO

Hmmm... I don't think so... I specifically remember a lux/gpt deal that I had to cancel within the last few months. An AU game, I think, but I'd be loathe to try to find the specific instance.

Regardless; I think that querying GoW re rubber for RP will be... interesting.

[Aeson]

What do you guys think of building a fortress 2 of whirlwind, and sticking 5 MI in it? It is the only place where ND can land in one turn, and those 5 MI could hopefully make ND think about attacking one of out coastal cities, which will have a lot higher defense (100% "Kitty" shelters, 50% city size (and I'm not sure about which cirties have walls...).

I think there is a Fortress already there. It does need to be manned more heavily as I only had 1 MI there this turn. There are a couple other spots that aren't 1 turn safe yet either, but due to our fleet not being built back up to par. That should be taken care of next turn.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Theseus
Hmmm... I don't think so... I specifically remember a lux/gpt deal that I had to cancel within the last few months. An AU game, I think, but I'd be loathe to try to find the specific instance.

Strange. Now, we can't check this with GoW, because if we enter the active deals screen, the game crashes. We certainly only have 1 source right now, so it's safe to assume that if we give that to RP, we would not have one ourselves.

Regardless; I think that querying GoW re rubber for RP will be... interesting.

Indeed. Maybe we should press on this, it would be best to ask this before we play our next turn. If we got confirmation, we could e.g. give the rubber source to RP this turn, and receive rubber from GoW when they are up.

Oh, wait a moment, GoW is before RP. They should give it to RP directly, or we are without rubber for 2 turns instead of 1. That would probably mean we miss a couple of builds.

I wonder what MZ is going to respond

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think there is a Fortress already there.

There was, but when checking last safe, I thought you had cleared it. There is a MI there as it is on an incense.

Aeson, do you have an estimate on when ND would attack? We've got minimum 2 turns, but would they wait for more marines?

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I think ND have had this game too easy. An easy Bobian war (superior units, land, resources and supply capability) - exploiting GAUL for cheap tech, free land off GoW on Lego - getting Lego's vote, probably having GoW's help in attacking GS.

I'd be quite disappointed in MZ if he helps ND win - though having said that I'd also want GoW to lose as a punishment for backstabbing us!

hum... this is a bit a split-personality thing, right? I don't think there is a real sense of " 'poly has to win the 'poly PTWDG", it could be an idea but if we really would have gone for that we would have attacked ND instead of Lego. We played the numbers, meaning that Lego was a bigger threat than ND.

Also, if we really want a 'poly team to win, we should aim for harming ND, helping GOW secure a win. If we really are about to die, I could be persuaded for this, but in the mean time I'm still aiming to win ourselves, and let both the Bobians lose, regardless of which site they are from.

You've got to give it to ND: they got so far, because they have played well. They deserve to win just as much as GoW does. Only we deserve it more, of course

DeepO

[DeepO]

BTW, if RP is going to do anything useful with conqs, they also need marines. ND is in between us in turn order, meaning we can't keep a city undefended for RP to land in.

Now, marines can be transported over our RRs in case RP has the transports in place at the precise time. At least that's one thing... but they will need a transport to get them on the other side of Eli, and they need the tech. Plus, it will be highly suspect if they've got spies planted.

DeepO

[Aeson]

With pillaging roads it could work. We'd need to have 4 movement requirement to reach the city by land and 7 movement requirement to reach the city by sea. It could work given all those hills down in the S. Also just a regular landing could work for them. If we do break through, most of ND's forces will be wiped out or intent on destroying our survivors. The units they land from Sea (we have to wait till they are at sea) could be cut off from getting back into the fray or even sunk by us.

If that doesn't work, there's no chance RP can build enough Marines to hope to take out MI defended towns in this timeframe. They'd need 2, maybe 3 Transports full of Marines to take the easiest targets. Thay would need a lot of turns to get those sort of numbers together.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Yes, this has been mentioned. We might well ask whether GoW have a plan to stop ND rubbing Apolyton's nose in it again.

Only problem is ND hasn't done any nose rubbing.

They have been a class act in this game and that.

I don't begrudge them winning this one and that. They are obviously very talented.

Let's finish this game with class as well, and not simply gang up on the 'outsiders.' That's so grade school.

[notyoueither]

That being said, the map says we should go with GoW to demolish ND. Facts are facts, and both GoW and oursleves stand a better chance of winning if ND suffers an 'accident.'

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
With pillaging roads it could work. We'd need to have 4 movement requirement to reach the city by land and 7 movement requirement to reach the city by sea. It could work given all those hills down in the S. Also just a regular landing could work for them. If we do break through, most of ND's forces will be wiped out or intent on destroying our survivors. The units they land from Sea (we have to wait till they are at sea) could be cut off from getting back into the fray or even sunk by us.

It could work, however it's not exactly easy to do and coordinate. If we need to pillage e.g. 3 RRs, we spend 6 units in doing so (and we don't have a lot of eplorers anymore, right?). The gain from getting RP to land would need to be greater.
However, RP has a very large range, with a unit that can occupy cities. If there is a threat of them landing, ND has to defend all its cities, instead of defending only those we could harm. Which means less units are available for the counter attack. That certainly would be good for us.

Let's just get RP over there asap, they still need several turns before any of this can work. Last time, we planned so long that we forgot to tell them they needed to sail...

If that doesn't work, there's no chance RP can build enough Marines to hope to take out MI defended towns in this timeframe. They'd need 2, maybe 3 Transports full of Marines to take the easiest targets. Thay would need a lot of turns to get those sort of numbers together.

That was the problem I was hinting at, yes. Anything RP can threaten will likely be under threat from us as well. ND would not send just 1 conscript MI in such a city, if they see RP coming it will be heavily guarded.

OTOH, I do prefer they do not spend too many infs/MIs on attacking ND, I prefer these defenders to be in Legoland asap, guarding rubber and uranium.

DeepO

[DeepO]

erhm... GoW is already providing rubber to RP? Strange... at least they are willing to give them more. No proof of imminent invasion

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

I don't begrudge them winning this one and that. They are obviously very talented.

I'm not saying they haven't played well, but I do think they've had it easy. If they deserve their position then we've made a historical mistake. It should have been GoW & ND knocking Lego out, with us building & waiting in the wings, but by acting like they were happy to let Lego surge ahead and win and by snubbing GAUL at first, we had to roll up our sleeves and do it with GoW ourselves.

Perhaps that was their masterstroke - pretending that they would let Lego win so we had to go and do their work for them while they blackmailed us for cheap tech. In which case we made a strategic error in not calling their bluff and should have carried on ourselves like we were happy to let Lego run away with it. Then ND would have been forced to attack Lego with GoW.

I'm afraid I don't know what 'Grade School' is, and I'd probably rather not know in the context, but it's not unusual for people of any age to not want one team winning everything. Don't you think there's some 'poly pride at stake here NYE?

[DeepO]

CH, they never had the need to go after Lego, they could very well have held back and just build up, afterwards going for space or for us. There was no bluff, IMHO. It was also some kind of deal with GoW: GoW has received a few ND cities, which were at least partially built up. ND has, in comparison, more land, but virgin land which needed to start everything from scratch. It's normal that GoW was prepared for war faster than ND.

And we had no choice. At least we're in 3rd place now, which gives us a small shot at victory. With Lego around, there wouldn't have been any chance...

You are right that for some things, ND had it easier. But for others they didn't. And they did fight for their position, not only with RP, but also with Lux. It's not that they were given their advantage by the RNG like for Lego.

DeepO