Dark Day for Demo Gaming

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ming


Only after being dragged kicking and screaming to do what is right.

Oh me. Ming, there are people all over the world on our team. It took a couple of days to track them all down to talk to them. Yes, there was a heated discussion about this. While the team was caught, all but one did nothing wrong. It has been a big disappointment that most have not recognized this fact. In the end the decision was made to agree with you and Beta.

Hmmm... so it's ok for your members to attack the administration and I should ignore it?

I don't believe I said that anywhere. If that was the implication you received then I would like to set the record straight. I do not condone any member attacking an admin...and to be clear, I do not condone any admin attacking a member. No implications...just a statement of how I feel. Hopefully we are clear on that one now.

Have you forgotten that this is a PRIVATELY owned site?

Nope...never have.

We have an interest in protecting the integrety of the games here.

I sure hope so. For all involved.

Your game is being hosted by this site... and the effects of this game are felt across the entire community.

Indeed...and in many different ways than it appears you are aware. I have received far more sympathy from members for the situation we are in than I have anything else. How the innocent members of this team are being treated is being watched by many.

Cheating has occured in this game... FACT!

And I do not believe anuone has disputed this. Yet it continues to be stated as if their was some debate?

It was done by a member of your team... FACT!

Again...no one debates this point. What of the other members that were completly unaware? It seems to be the policy of this site to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

While you may all be disturbed by this, so is the admin of this site. This is a serious violation of site rules in addition to your game rules.

By your own rules, harsh penalities could have been applied to your team with no discussion needed. The violated team has not taken that action... Instead, they asked for a less stern way to deal with the problem... and your teams response was to ignore it, and then continue playing the game as if nothing happened.
In addition, some of your team even implys that the violated party is at fault for allowing a DL... And posted flaming posts...

Yes, we are all disturbed by this for sure. Beta's understanding and expression of trust in Paddy went a long way at the beginning to ease the pain here. While Beta contemplated our counteroffer to his proposal (which we made to try to keep the game integrity from sliding further), the public forums started getting heated. Once it was decided that Beta wished to maintain his request for access we had to talk to members from literally around the world. This has taken time and the decision has been reached. Obviously, not all the team is happy with this solution (one could hope there is enough intelligence around to see why), yet we take this action in the best interest of the site.

These actions will NOT BE TOLERATED on this site.
Cheating will NOT BE TOLERATED!

Well, I would certainly hope not. Good Lord, what are you implying? That we condoned these activities by JTS? Please...

Now, your team has finally agreed to what they should have in the beginning... and yet the venom continues to drip. Now you attack the administration of the site that allows you to host your game on this site for free... even created the private forums for you.

Ming, I do hope you understand the above explanation I have offered on the time it took to come to this decision. I have not attacked the administration in any way that I know of. I simply asked you to "do the right thing". Sorry if that is considered an attack. The hosting of this game and the forums provided are greatly appreciated by all that I talk with.

I've even heard a comment that the Admin shouldn't have access to the private forums....
(I guess somebody forgot who owns this site)

Perhaps you should listen a bit closer. That was a "game" admin and strategies are to be talked about for the next game that the "game" admin would be playing in. No one has remotely suggested that a site admin not be allowed access to the site's forums.

So I would highly suggest you stop with that crap.
If you have a problem, you are welcome to take your team elsewhere... But if you are staying, please be prepared for the Admin to protect the integrety of this site...

Apparently we have different definitions of crap. We also are quite insistent that the Admin protect the integrity of this site.

No site that I know allows cheating... We expect the participants to police themselves and be civil about it.
When that doesn't happen, we will get involved.

Perhaps, if there is ever another such occurance (which we certainly hope tehre isn't), the admins will try to see both sides of an issue. Everyone in this game, including the non-cheating members of the Horde, are victims of these actions. We condemn them in the strongest possible terms. To imply that all the Horde would prefer a site that allows cheating is simply insulting and completely unfair.

Again, the issue here goes far beyond just your game.

And again, it would be wise for all to see this. I can assure you that the Horde does.

Be well. I hope I have answered your concerns.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by conmcb25


Sorry bud, but he did ask that the save be played ONCE again. And my debate on the deleted post in DONE, we probably shouldn't even be talking about it anyway.

Im just trying to be very clear, so you or any other of your team members dont have to ask again. How that is a "witch hunt" is beyond me.

I dont "roleplay". I just tell it like it is

con, I have a copy of the post I can foward you. There is no reference I can find to asking you to play the save.

That is also not the witch hunt to which I refer. Thanks for beinga straight shooter. It is appreciated.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Beta


There is no witch hunt; and we are not bashing Horde members. Ther only person I have pushed back on is CM, and that's because his two posts seem fueled more by passion than logic, and needed to be addressed.

skro - er Daddy_O, and con - can we pull back from posting anything else please. And thanks.

Bongo - regarding your suggestion - as was stated, both IP's were from PTS' LAN. Ming and Paddy have confirmed this. So obviously no one from Babylon had access to either. The red herring is not helpful.

So everyone, a few deeep breaths and think happy thoughts. We will get through this.

Thank you for your restraint Beta. No one I have talked with on the team has any thoughts that you had unfair access through JTS.

/me goes off to think happy thoughts

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by PLATO


con, I have a copy of the post I can foward you. There is no reference I can find to asking you to play the save.

That is also not the witch hunt to which I refer. Thanks for beinga straight shooter. It is appreciated.

Ok sorry Beta, and Plato.

Paddy just sent me an email, I may have gotten it from there, so my bad. Im old, I have the start of alzheimers and a bit of adult ADD and was raised by wolves. So bear with me.

believe it or not I consider Paddy one of my friends here at Apoly, he and I go back a long way. If you could forward me that post please do so via my email or PM. I want to discuss it with paddy in private for personnal reasons. Thanks

conmcb25~TA~bluemarble~TOD~net

[ChrisiusMaximus]

As far as im concerned Ming you are the biggest flamer in this thread and you should be ashamed of that FACT.

Beta I have /am coming to terms with you having access to our forum, I still not happy though. I hope you are correct and this will help put things right between all of us, it is true i have always right through the game had a hang up on any body not on the team seeing our discussions and this has been a huge obstacle for me personally.

As i said earlier I have withdrawn my opposition to this process OK!!!

I actually thought this would be best sorted by the sites administration but maybe your way is best as that administration only seems to seek to further wind up myself and other INNOCENT INDIVIDUALS ON THE BOH TEAM WHO HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT WAS HAPPENING !!!!!!!

Beta maybe our two teams should arrange a further chat this time to discuss how to speed up this process, i hope you understand i feel totally powerless in all this and although some may see that as wrong i maybe do need a little encouragement to get through this as do we all together.

To everyone I aplogise if ive been a blockage in a due process, i hope you accept my feelings on this have been difficult.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by conmcb25


If you could forward me that post please do so via my email or PM.

Done by email

[Ming]

Originally posted by PLATO
[Oh me. Ming, there are people all over the world on our team. It took a couple of days to track them all down to talk to them. Yes, there was a heated discussion about this. While the team was caught, all but one did nothing wrong. It has been a big disappointment that most have not recognized this fact. In the end the decision was made to agree with you and Beta.

Actually... that's a bald face lie based on what's posted in your forum. It wasn't until the heat was turned up and a few of your members actually took an interest was the decision made to agree... you guys had passed the turn and expected the game would continue.

I don't believe I said that anywhere.

No... you didn't.

I do not condone any member attacking an admin...

Talk to CM then... because that's what he is doing.

Indeed...and in many different ways than it appears you are aware. I have received far more sympathy from members for the situation we are in than I have anything else. How the innocent members of this team are being treated is being watched by many.

And I've heard plenty on the other side... watching how a team that cheats gets treated.

What of the other members that were completly unaware? It seems to be the policy of this site to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

Actually... nobody really knows if other members were involved... more on that later.

Yes, we are all disturbed by this for sure. Beta's understanding and expression of trust in Paddy went a long way at the beginning to ease the pain here. While Beta contemplated our counteroffer to his proposal (which we made to try to keep the game integrity from sliding further), the public forums started getting heated. Once it was decided that Beta wished to maintain his request for access we had to talk to members from literally around the world.
This has taken time and the decision has been reached. Obviously, not all the team is happy with this solution (one could hope there is enough intelligence around to see why), yet we take this action in the best interest of the site.

Interesting spin after the fact...

Now let me put some more information on the table...

When I was contacted about possible rules violations, I started looking into the Planet Log on.

The results of IP checks and time stamps on messages was truly interesting.

It seemed that Planet only used IP addresses also used by:

Paddy
James
Ruby

There is no positive proof via the IP addresses that clearly eliminates anybody from using the Planet log on, and nothing that is proof positive that only James used it.

When I contacted Paddy... he's the one that outed James. James being thrown under the train on this one is based soley on what Paddy told me and not supported by anything except the respect I held for Paddy. The data could be used to point the finger at any of them, or all of them. Since then, my respect for Paddy has dropped considerably thanks to his actions... and I really don't know whether his whole story on this is believable anymore.

So while James is the one being accused here, remember it is ONLY based on the word of Paddy.

[Ming]

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
As far as im concerned Ming you are the biggest flamer in this thread and you should be ashamed of that FACT.

Maybe you should read the whole thread again, especially your posts

[ChrisiusMaximus]

keep on rolling keep on rolling, maybe you should step away and allow us to get on with things !

[ChrisiusMaximus]

how old are you ming ?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ming


Actually... that's a bald face lie based on what's posted in your forum. It wasn't until the heat was turned up and a few of your members actually took an interest was the decision made to agree... you guys had passed the turn and expected the game would continue.

We obviously communiate in more ways than these forums. I have not lied to you. As you say "based on what's posted", I will not take offense at this.

No... you didn't.

It is good to see you acknowledge this at least.

Talk to CM then... because that's what he is doing.

CM is reflecting his own ideas that your actions have been onesided. I am not attacking you, but there may be some merit in that thought....

And I've heard plenty on the other side... watching how a team that cheats gets treated.

As there is more than one point of view on how Horde member's are being treated, there will obviously be more than one type reaction. All we ask is that the site try to see the position the non-cheating members of the Horde find themselves. Something, I personally, have not seen yet.

Actually... nobody really knows if other members were involved... more on that later.

Everyone will have to answer to their own concious ultimately. I, for one, have a clean one

Interesting spin after the fact...

Spin? Please....

Now let me put some more information on the table...

When I was contacted about possible rules violations, I started looking into the Planet Log on.

The results of IP checks and time stamps on messages was truly interesting.

It seemed that Planet only used IP addresses also used by:

Paddy
James
Ruby

There is no positive proof via the IP addresses that clearly eliminates anybody from using the Planet log on, and nothing that is proof positive that only James used it.

When I contacted Paddy... he's the one that outed James. James being thrown under the train on this one is based soley on what Paddy told me and not supported by anything except the respect I held for Paddy. The data could be used to point the finger at any of them, or all of them. Since then, my respect for Paddy has dropped considerably thanks to his actions... and I really don't know whether his whole story on this is believable anymore.

So while James is the one being accused here, remember it is ONLY based on the word of Paddy.

The facts here presented are true. However, you are changing your beliefs due to a person's reaction to thinking their own honour has been called into question? hmmm...okay, so be that. I will say that i find it highly unlikely that Paddy was involved. I have had an enormous amount of chats with him on this and I stand by what he has said.


Now Ming, The question becomes...Do wish to be a voice that promotes healing in this community or will you continue to be a voice of division. The Horde is clearly stating here that we wish to rebuild the trust between the teams and the players. We have granted the requested access. We ask that the site administration get behind the healing process. The ball is in your court.

[Ming]

The ball was in your court... and after flaming, demands to continue, telling the victims it was their fault, and ignoring the problem, THEN you started the healing process.

And I'm not surprised you believe your team mate... your opinion...

Paddy's story is very convienent... and I only believed it because he was respected member of the community, so I was willing to cut him some slack.

That respect was misplaced as his further actions proved. So I just want to make sure people understand the true facts in this case.

Everybody in Paddy's household had access to that account, and the true fact is, it doesn't actually prove who used the account... only that it was used by either a single person or multiple people from his household.

And as noted... James didn't have an account when the Planet account was created.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Paddy has done nothing wrong this has been a very difficult thing for him, and you are just looking for angles to back up your continued abusive statements, is this all part of your remit as a Mod here ???

Hope you get some kind of satisfaction out of slinging accusations and insults around you surely deserve some happiness.

[Ming]

I'm not the one throwing around personal insults... or accusations.

I've just stated the facts. That's all.

And if you think I get any satisfaction by watching your antics, you are wrong. I have better things to do than baby sit a game you guys let get out of hand. But I have no choice...

[ChrisiusMaximus]

You have consistently in this thread made assumptions accusations and been abusive to me and others on my team, im sure you see it your way but you are wrong !!!

It matters not to me who you are Ming any one who attacks people i care about in the way you have then i will stand up and protest and i will keep on doing so until you back off!!!!!

I have done nothing wrong do you hear me ???????