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  • #91
    Uber you now have a choice :
    - You can continue this revolution like you begun, with bias, insults, and political pettiness. This will lead to nowhere, except some people will leave the DemoGame because of the constant infighting (and we don't need it, with the dare consequences of the constitutional rage)

    - You can suggest your idea in a prepoll debate (NOT an immediate poll, your idea isn't refined enough), and refine it with others. This way, we'll have a satisfactory cabinet change. I'd like to remind the excellent court experience : Trip's first project was much worse than what we have now, because several brains worked on it for weeks.

    I agree changes can be needed in our government structure. In the future I doubt the usefulness of the minister of Imperial Expansion for example (when there are no places left to settle).
    Even if I'm pessimistic about their outcome, your idea has merits. It culd probably win in an official amendment poll.

    Our system is not in ruins as you like to yell, because it's very adaptable. Should most people feel our governmental structure is unsatisfactory, they'll vote for another in a poll, according to our rules, if someone provides a complete project.

    BTW Uber, something that bugs me : you pretend you were calling for Punkbass' impeachment for weeks, and I believe you. But you never made the concrete thing (a poll with 2/3 requirement) to get things done. Did you expect someone else to do this kind of things at your place ?
    To get things done here, we need a bit of organization.... Saying "it would be good if..." doesn't get anything done. Making a poll or a complete project does.
    Just look at the whole "link to embassy of Phoenatica" thing : we got it only after a petition has begun. By the same token, Plan Gold could have been a dream if an official poll hasn't been done, because our officials had other plans in mind.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Spiffor
      Uber you now have a choice :
      - You can continue this revolution like you begun, with bias, insults, and political pettiness. This will lead to nowhere, except some people will leave the DemoGame because of the constant infighting (and we don't need it, with the dare consequences of the constitutional rage)

      - You can suggest your idea in a prepoll debate (NOT an immediate poll, your idea isn't refined enough), and refine it with others. This way, we'll have a satisfactory cabinet change. I'd like to remind the excellent court experience : Trip's first project was much worse than what we have now, because several brains worked on it for weeks.

      I agree changes can be needed in our government structure. In the future I doubt the usefulness of the minister of Imperial Expansion for example (when there are no places left to settle).
      Even if I'm pessimistic about their outcome, your idea has merits. It culd probably win in an official amendment poll.

      Our system is not in ruins as you like to yell, because it's very adaptable. Should most people feel our governmental structure is unsatisfactory, they'll vote for another in a poll, according to our rules, if someone provides a complete project.

      BTW Uber, something that bugs me : you pretend you were calling for Punkbass' impeachment for weeks, and I believe you. But you never made the concrete thing (a poll with 2/3 requirement) to get things done. Did you expect someone else to do this kind of things at your place ?
      To get things done here, we need a bit of organization.... Saying "it would be good if..." doesn't get anything done. Making a poll or a complete project does.
      Just look at the whole "link to embassy of Phoenatica" thing : we got it only after a petition has begun. By the same token, Plan Gold could have been a dream if an official poll hasn't been done, because our officials had other plans in mind.
      That is rational thought That is good.
      "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
      - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
      Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

      Comment


      • #93
        The interesting thing in this turnchat was, while some people joked about resigning in this mess, UberKruX was the only one who really did it. So Uber, what are you complaining about? And who is acting childish?

        Comment


        • #94
          I don't see how getting into wars of insults is going to solve anything. As it appears, the game does need changes - the results of this poll do show this. So perhaps it's time to get over our differences, stop arguing and get to work on fixing the system...

          Comment


          • #95
            Agreed.

            /me once again points to the bottom line of his signature... It's been there all along...
            "Politics is to say you are going to do one thing while you're actually planning to do someting else - and then you do neither."
            -- Saddam Hussein

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            • #96
              I am avoiding the whole mess herein like the plague. I abstain from the vote, I abstain from this whole discussion. There needs to be a look at the way chats are handled, this is not the first time we have had trouble. I now seek asylum in the Phoenatican embassy and will be there till this all blows over either way.
              One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
              You're wierd. - Krill

              An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

              Comment


              • #97
                UberKruX is right, if he says, that something has to change. I have supported this too, several times in the near past. These turnchats are indeed a big waste of time. 2 hours to get 3 or 4 turns done, that's bad. In this time I'm through the whole ancient era, and may be even farther. Of course, the way UberKruX intends to manage this change, is just ridiculous. There have been some useful threads about turnthreads and alike. Why not support and further develop these ideas instead of launching silly "revolutions" like this?

                By the way, I did also not vote. Not even for Abstain. But to stick the head in the sand like an ostrich and to hide in some "embassies" is also no solution, not at all.

                Comment


                • #98
                  As I have no better ideas that would be in the spirit of this game, I support Sir Ralph's suggestion for more turnthreads.

                  How about we use the turnthread idea on Sunday?
                  oh god how did this get here I am not good with livejournal

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Off-Topic II?

                    And Guardian, we've all read that line in your signature.

                    Getting too deep here, people! Might I suggest a back-to-basics approach to solving this argument, ie. we make a conscious effort to play at Civ3 and not at politics?
                    Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

                    Comment


                    • At the end of the day, it's still just a game. Let's just calm down and try to act without attacking each other. I'm all for reform if it makes this any more fun than it currently is (which wouldn't be something so hard to do at this point), but a complete revolution (with the replacement of ALL the ministers) is a bit much. AFAIK, the ministers who don't do their jobs correctly/intelligently are in the minority.

                      Like I said, there's no need to get pissed off and declare a full blown revolution, because it's still just a game.

                      Comment


                      • May I suggest we all move to Alpha Centauri and start a brand new future? Everything will be much better there.
                        Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                        Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                        Comment


                        • I agree with Edrix. However, you've got to laugh at the irony.

                          Uber : "You're all being immature. I'm taking my ball, and i'm going home! And i'm going to tell all my friends not to play with you as well!".

                          And i have to also say, apologies to Uber for poking fun, as he made some very good points, if not in the right way (and because i don't want his Elite Guard to be coming looking for me ) . There does need to be change, just not rushed through in the heat of the moment. And it needs to be refinement, not throwing away all the work that has been done and starting again.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sir Ralph
                            By the way, I did also not vote. Not even for Abstain. But to stick the head in the sand like an ostrich and to hide in some "embassies" is also no solution, not at all.
                            Ralph, fact is, I have nothing to add. I can NEVER make a chat, I have not seen them so I cannot form an opinion on what needs to be changed. I am not hiding away, I just don't have any ideas on how to make it better. If there are problems, things must change. I do not know all the problems, nor do I know of solutions. I will just sit back and do what I do best: report of all this in the paper.
                            One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
                            You're wierd. - Krill

                            An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by notyoueither
                              The interesting bit is how many people agree with it.
                              My guess is everyone who is voting yes votes because

                              1: they want some changes (no matter how minor)
                              2: they might be anarchists

                              heck... people vote for bananas in elections dont they?
                              Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

                              Comment


                              • Uber,

                                With only one post, you have already obtained a lot ; among the many answers you received, some where purely dialectical and could not help, but others where plainly constructive. It is now generally accepted that changes must be made, and the proposals offered by Spiffor and Sir Ralph are completely in line with what you want, and they are widely supported.

                                In fact, if you don?t make of this a personal affair, and if you were given reasonable guaranties that the changes urgently needed will be enforced within, let say two weeks, there seems to be no serious reason not to come back within the safe borders of the law.

                                Incidentally, we have heard no objection to the construction of a huge arc de triomphe devoted to your person in case of a brilliant success in the battle of Paris.
                                Statistical anomaly.
                                The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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