Revolution.

[Kramerman]

I wrote this idea on Skywalker's infamous"next game" thread. There are just some ideas I threw out there, incase any of yall like them, Ill repost them here:

I wasn't sure from the earlier conversation, but were you talking about a governor for every town? That would be a great idea, from a role playing perspective. All the citizens are in the main city to begin with, then once a scond city is founded, half the demo game pop goes there. Then the populations of each city can vote for a governor who would have control, unless ordered to do something specific by the demestic advisor. The different cities can then vote for senators and representarives to represent them in a national congress, ontop of the national positions, like justices, ministers, and president/VP. This would foster fun, but constructive rivalry between the citieis, like which one was the first to build a library, which city is the biggest and most developed, which is the best all-round. Every city can have their own roster of residents and stuff, and people could move from city to city, if they want, i guess. This would definately require sub-forums though, so the different cities dont get mixed up with other cities' affairs. It would be kinda like a state level and then a federal level government. But, I dont think thats very likely to happen... just a fun thought, I guess...

But just for fun, there would be a two house congress, representatives in a number proportional to each cities' population (civ population, not real people/demo game pop) and a senate made of a specific number of senators from each city. there would be a court, like the one we have now, and ministers like skywalker has described, but i would personally prefer a seperate science advisor, so their is no military bias for research - though im not particularly upset about that. Governors could have polls on what their residents want to build, and then ministers and stuff could have polls for citizens on the national level. The main purpose of the congress would be to authorize funding for anything (i.e rushing a project, buiding embassies) and also for passing 'laws' (things that aren't ammendments). But perhaps senators in particular could be the ones to represent their cities in the turn chats - to make them more efficient and orderly (this would make senatros quite a bit more powerful than representatives). The general public would still have its voice in polls on both city and federal levels, and also would be needed to pass amendments and other things. I haven't really thought this through, Im just kinda writing as it comes to me. But this would definately allow for much more people to be more heavily involved on the game, and allow for more fun all around, i think. Just some fun ideas for next time, whether thats soon because we get our ass kicked, are a longtime from now because we rise victoriously...

[OPD]

*OPD sees it's 9 to 6 for the revolution and wonders who will be first against the wall.*

I'm with Uber over this one and might be inclined to agree with his immature kids comment.

Skywalker: I understand that you probably had a legitimate gripe over something but your flooding didn't really help and was probably the reason why the ministers moved to the ministers room and payed "less attention" to the other chat. Perhaps you're gripe was over the lack of an uptodate save and no posting of official chat times in the thread.


It's funny that someone stated that I was discussing city planning as I wasn't. I could watch as the ministers discussed it
but could only suggest the same thing four times in the normal chat before finally being understood (with the exception of those in the normal chat room and Spiffor/Sir ralph IIRC who were watching). By which time the chat had decended into a farce and I had to go flog a dead horse instead.

I'm all for joking around but not when there's important stuff to be done.

As for changing the system I don't think we should do anything rash just yet as there's an election in a few days anyway.

But changes have to be made such as mandatory deputies as Spiffor says. Also I think the ministers room should be reserved for minister orders and not for "elite discusions".

IMHO the system is ok as it is with a few tweeks and provided that a few people get there act together.

[Spiffor]

OPD :
I am weak enough to participate to "elite discussions", but I think you're totally right. Minister's room should only exist for minister orders. Discussion should be held on the public chatroom.
Maybe this will push the public to participate more (you were the only one in the public to have participated to policies today).

I'm also sorry for having told you have done a "city planning" suggestion. That was the best word I could come up with, since you suggested to change the places where Apolyton laborers work.

[Robber Baron]

Man, sounds like the turnchat was a bit muddled. (/understatement!)

I'm not going to vote in this poll. It's unconstitutional and therefore undemocratic. We have a system for dealing with "incompetent" ministers: we vote for different ones. (/righteous preaching)

Time for cool heads to prevail, gentlemen. Uber's proposals for restructuring the government sound like they have merit, and deserve consideration as constitutional amendments. Until then, it's not as if we have experienced a massive collapse of our current system. Just an awkward and inefficient turnchat. Banana Above, can't we all just get along.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Robber Baron
Man, sounds like the turnchat was a bit muddled. (/understatement!)

I'm not going to vote in this poll. It's unconstitutional and therefore undemocratic. We have a system for dealing with "incompetent" ministers: we vote for different ones. (/righteous preaching)

Time for cool heads to prevail, gentlemen. Uber's proposals for restructuring the government sound like they have merit, and deserve consideration as constitutional amendments. Until then, it's not as if we have experienced a massive collapse of our current system. Just an awkward and inefficient turnchat. Banana Above, can't we all just get along.

another brilliant post (no sarcasm at all)

This thread only exists because Uber got frustrated. Its not because there is a massive dissent among the people concerning how things are done.

The problems that arose were

1: a certain minister is greatly incompetent
2: the usual method of conducting turnchats was ignored
3: a boiling point was reached concerning how we have to deal with absent ministers

As far as most of the stuff in Ubers first post that would concern what Timeline and I was doing, that DID NOT LAST LONGER THAN 5 LINES! . Jeez. Turnchats have always had an element of fun to them, and an element of unneeded spam. Skywalker is a great example of this .
But it reflects badly because Uber has the diplomatic genious to make it seem like the most important issue in this thread.

The issue is incompetent and absent ministers, and how they damage turnchats.... NOT how absurd turnchats get. If we HAD competent ministers all around, turnchats would still get absurd, just more turns would get done becuase decisions would be met quicker.

[wervdon]

I voted no to this unconstitutional poll. I do agree with alot of Uber's ideas (skywalker's ideas), but not the method.

A code of laws is only as good as how well we stick to it, and if its only going to take a simple poll posted by an angry minister to rip them up, then they are officially no better than simple polls.

Btw, if he's really that incompetant then call for his impeachment already.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by wervdon
I voted no to this unconstitutional poll. I do agree with alot of Uber's ideas (skywalker's ideas), but not the method.

A code of laws is only as good as how well we stick to it, and if its only going to take a simple poll posted by an angry minister to rip them up, then they are officially no better than simple polls.

Btw, if he's really that incompetant then call forhis impeachment already.

i've been calling for the impeachment of Punkbass for god knows how long.

And Timeline? hah.

You probably wouldn't even have taken it seriously.

[Inverse Icarus]

and as unofficial and unconstitutional as this poll may be, so far it's 2:1.

[wervdon]

Impeachment:
All members of our great nation are recognized the right to bring foreword the issue of impeachment of any government official at any time.

A poll will be posted which will expire in no less than 5 days. There are to be three poll options, yea, nay, and abstain. Upon the expiration of the poll, if 2/3 of the people who voted deem impeachment necessary, then the official shall be immediately removed from office. The President shall establish an emergency member to take his/her place until a new election can be held, and a new person voted into office to finish the term. The same holds true for any possible resignations.

I assume the above is still in effect from the original code of laws, though I admit ive been too busy to keep up on all ammendments.

If you havent started a poll, then you haven't called for anyone's impeachment, and I don't recall seeing any impeachment polls.

[Kramerman]

aw man, we almost have the new impeachment amendment up. Shoot... I was hoping we get to see it in action. It is really effective and efficient. Oh well...

[Robber Baron]

Originally posted by UberKruX
and as unofficial and unconstitutional as this poll may be, so far it's 2:1.

That's a grand total of 12 votes, so far, out of a citizenry of 200+.

[Ninot]

There won't be revolution (IMHO)

there WILL be some radical changes to the COL probably tho, if this is truly the will of the people

however

you must realise that in truth, there only is fault with a select few of the current government (punkbass), and that most of the system works flawlessly.

And, the entire reason Uber posted this was cuz he got a little annoyed at a turnchat, that was being run not by the normal President, but by the VP, and not by a normal ministerial staff, but a very roughly picked one.

And, it has probably been one of our worst turnchats to date.

Thursdays turnchat will be different.

We can't use this sole example as a shining example of the incompetence of our current system. Thats just insane. We can use it to find we have flaws with the current system. Mainly flaws that would allow people like punkbass to run and keep a position hes not even maintaining.

But, with elections coming up, we will have a new government, and perhaps we will pass some things to get the system more effecient like. But a complete overhall of the COL wont happen. 2 months of work thrown down the drain cant happen.


This is mostly small frustration at an unsuccesful turnchat. Like ive said, thursday will be different.

[Kramerman]

There won't be revolution (IMHO)

SHlT! I got my hick truck and dove shootin scatter gun all ready to go for nothin... aw... pa is gonna woop my ass...

Kman

[Spiffor]

Uber :
Out of curiosity, how did you help to resolve the problem ? How are you different from the "immature kids who can't get things done" ?
You seem to criticize Ninot and Timeline vehemently, while you didn't try to help. SirRalph and myself tried to put up something to make the chat flow again, re this frigging city planning. I didn't see you participating, nor giving a concrete plan to our execs (which I did, after concertation with SirRalph)

I overall fear you're using the emotion from this turnchat to get to your own ends. You left brutally, and it makes me wonder if you would have been able to do better.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Uber :
Out of curiosity, how did you help to resolve the problem ? How are you different from the "immature kids who can't get things done" ?
You seem to criticize Ninot and Timeline vehemently, while you didn't try to help. SirRalph and myself tried to put up something to make the chat flow again, re this frigging city planning. I didn't see you participating, nor giving a concrete plan to our execs (which I did, after concertation with SirRalph)

I overall fear you're using the emotion from this turnchat to get to your own ends. You left brutally, and it makes me wonder if you would have been able to do better.