REAL HEROES NAMES for each civ (please participate in this project)

[Kickasso]

To Cossack (hope you're know how to spell your nick on russian right? :P ) - thanks for stories especially for 2nd one.

I remind that I take only Great Kings of Ancient times or glorious generals to the list (not even admirals because I haven't seen naval battles victory with leader appearance out of ground yet...)

According to your suggestions I redesign British Heroes List to the following (including Henry V - Battles of Crecy and Agincourt against the French):

1. Boudicea
2. Alfred the Great
4. Richard the Lionheart
5. Edward (just Edward )
6. Henry V
6. George Monck or James Wolfe - vote please
7. Wellington
8. Montgomery

Kickasso

[burak]

C'mon guys, Vercingetorix and Boadicea were celts, not English or French (such nations didn't existed yet.)
Why don't you place Attila in russian leader's list, he was from somewhere in Russia, didn't he?

And polish leaders in my opinion:
Boleslav the Brave (conquered Bohemia and Slovakia for some time)
Henry the Godfearing (great battle with Mongols)
Vladislav Small (reunited Poland)
Vladislav Jagiello (defeated Teutonic Knights)
Stephan Batory
Stefan Czarniecki
Jan III Sobieski
Jozef Pilsudski

[Kickasso]

Burak, thanks for Polish Heroes List. If Poland will present in next Apolyton Mod I going to be included.

Regarding Attila - what a rubbish! He is absolutely neither Russian nor Slavic guy - if he possibly (I'm sure he's not) was burn on slavic lands he can be slavic by birth - I didn't see or hear any info regarding it. Also his name doesn't have slavic roots - he might been Hun by birth but I'm not quite sure.

Regarding Vercingetorix - its really hard subject. From other side he's claimed as Celt, from Other as from tribe lived of modern france territory...Anyway I need more info of him

Kickasso

[Manstein3]

About Celts you have to take into account that it is only a name.
Ancient Gallia was obviously celtic. The France found in the early Middle Ages must have had a celtic population also, because Romans were not that numerous (upper class which dissapeared quickly as soon as conditions changed) and the Franconian (German tribe) emperors were also inferior in numbers.
So the French are a celtic nation, with small German elements (Frankonian, and later, Viking (Normannen --> Normandie))
Same is Wales and Scotland (? not sure) in Britain, and Ireland: all celtic. In Spain, there are too some Celtic roots still alive, I think.

[Manstein3]

I forgot the conclusion:
Therefore one can propose reasonably that Vercingetorix is a French war hero.

[Giovanni August]

Originally posted by Kickasso
Roman (base):
1. Claudius
2. Trajan
3. Attilius Regulus
4. Octavian
5. Scipio Africanus
6. Diocletian
7. Gaius Laelius
8. Arbogast

Kickasso

I would try to put in that list:

Romulus (the legend want him to be the funder of Rome)
Costantine (the first Christian emperor)

Saluti

Saluti

[Kickasso]

Right, Manstein3, I think I agree with you completely regarding Vercingetorix.

To Giovanni August: Thanks for Romulus and Costantine - they're unfortunately not a military heroes ( I take only warlords and generals )

Today or tomorrow I will present Japanese list. Cya

[Dr. Nick]

Kitchener - new person but I need more info about him to rank

"K of K" (Kitchener of Khartoum) is probably the most recognisable of all British generals of this period (colonial period). He served lengthily in Egypt before becoming Sirdar of the Egyptian army in 1892 and he wrested power of Sudan from the Mahdists definetly after Omdurman (1899). In 1900 he was appointed to South Africa where his organisational skills and indefatigable energy proved crucial... Two days after the declaration of war (WWI) he was appointed Secretary of State for War and for the next year and a half virtually ran the British War effort. He was featured on Alfred Leete's WWI recruitment poster. When leading an effort into Russia, he was lost at sea when his transport struck a mine. His death was regarded as an appalling calamity by the public. Mortimer Menpes thought him a hard and noted that everyone fell silent when he appeared: "No officer in the entire British Army is held in such mortal fear."

Henry V (Battles of Crecy and Agincourt against the French)

Didn't those happen a century from each other?

Churchill (Second World War)

Not really commanding an army.


About Boadicea, I agree that if you have to supress generals in the colonial period (Kitchener or those guys who conquered India) it would be better to eliminate her altogether as she wasn't even "english". I'd say that the oldest you can go for an English military leader is Alfred the Great.

[Kickasso]

Oh..that a problem with those British

I offer the following final British List after all comments/suggestions:

1. Alfred the Great
2. Richard the Lionheart
3. Edward I 'Longshanks'
4. Henry V
5. George Monck
6. James Wolfe
7. Wellington
8. Montgomery

Kitchener, Robert Clive, Churchill, Boudicea, Nelson, Drake, Wallace, William the Conqueror - gone out during 'competition' by various reasons

[Ecthy]

Neither Karl Martell nor Charlemagne should be German leaders, they're French leaders.

Use some Otto guy instead (German emperor from middle ages), and maybe some Karl guy

and then:

Blücher
Moltke
Rommel

there were 2 Moltkes anyway... one was the great hero of 1870/71

[Ecthy]

read great hero in quotation marks

[alskdj80]

It really seems like all the Chinese have disappeared from this forum... I sometimes check in my limited free time but rarely post. However, I can't help posting here, I'm just afraid that another list of Chinese leaders are going to include non-Chinese people again...

I can't be considered as a historian, so take my words for minimal worth. Some of my info comes from unreliable sources, so someone had better check up on it.

Anyways, if I were to list historical Chinese leaders...
Han Xin - general under founder of Han dynasty
Sun Bin - general/strategist in state of Wu during Warring States period
Sun Tzu - general/strategist in state of Ch'i during Warring States period (well, he wrote the book didn't he?)
Zhang Liang - strategist under founder of Han dynasty
Zhuge Liang - strategist under Liu Bei in the Three Kingdoms period
Wei Qing and Huo Qubing - generals under Han Wudi in the Han dynasty
Sima Yi - strategist under Cao Cao in the Three Kingdoms period, and his sons eventually

I know I'm forgetting others... there must be generals in the Tang dynasty and the Qin (or Ch'in) dynasty (which is different from the Chin dynasty, which was controlled by the Manchurians)...

Anyways, I dunno if you actually want to add some emperors to the list... I mean, some of them probably spent most of their free time warring... and besides, I think Napoleon is on the lists? Pretty simple actually, just add the emperors or leaders (not generals) I mentioned... Han Wudi, Liu Bei (actually, not that great of a candidate, if you ask me... ), Cao Cao, Liu Bang (the founder of Han, so I'd say he's important), and add others like Tang Tai-Zong, Qin Shi-Huang, Xiang Yu (another secondary candidate)... just a short list...

Just to clarify... first list are generals, second list are emperors/leaders... the modern people are more known than the ancient ones, so I won't bother...

Better double check... and edit the list... I have a strong feeling that something is missing... just something to get started with...

[macaskil]

British/Irish Heroes

Since Firaxis includes Wallace in their "English" heroes I suggest we look at all heroes from the British Isles, whether Anglo-Saxon or Celtic.

English

Alfred the Great (held off Danes)
Athelstan (defeated Scots and Vikings)
Edgar Aetheling (threw out the Danes)
Edward I (beat Scots and Welsh)
Hereward the Wake (guerilla fighter against William the Conq)
Henry V (Agincourt)
The Black Prince (Crecy)
Drake (Armada)

British (ie 1603-)

Cromwell (not a hero to the Irish - but see below)
Monk (Civil War)
Marlborough (beat French)
Wellington (Waterloo)
Montgomery (El Alamein)
Churchill (leader rather than Hero -and descendant of Marlborough)
Lawrence (only Brit hero in WWI?)
Bader (disabled WWII Spitfire pilot)

Celtic

Boudicca (slaughtered 000's of Romans)
Arthur (if he existed)

Welsh

Llewellyn (last Welsh native prince)
Glyndwr (led revolt in 14th C)

Irish

Brian Boru (defeated Danes)
Michael Collins (hero to Republicans if not Unionists)

Scottish

Macbeth (not really a villain; first Scots king to visit Rome)
David I (Scotland extended to the Tees; he also founded monasteries and chartered cities)
Wallace (natch)
Bruce
Thomas Randolph
The Black Douglas(these last 2 were Bruce's generals)
Leslie (Civil War)
Montrose (Civil War - possibly the best military leader in Scots history)
Lord George Murray (Jacobite general - never lost a battle until Culloden)

For a laugh we could have some disastrous leaders such as

Edward II - lost at Bannockburn
James IV of Scotland - lost at Flodden from a winning position
James II - lost throne through political and military incompetence
Bonnie Prince Charlie - pointless campaign
any WWI general
any Crimean War general
any Boer War general
any American Revolution general esp. Braddock
any of the fundamentalist protestant Scots leaders (though God was telling them what to do....)
the Brit general at New Orleans
Admiral Byng (shot for failing to pursue the enemy)
Charles I - lost his head in a crisis!
Mary Tudor - lost Calais and failed to secure England for Catholicism by not executing Elizabeth
Mary of Scots - similar story; let her heart rule her head and then lost the latter
Edward VI - lost the 100 years war

I'm not sure where to put Harold. He beat the Vikings at Stamford Bridge, marched 300 miles then nearly beat the Normans. In civ3 terms had to fight on 2 fronts dozens of squares apart and nearly won.

[macaskil]

Brit heroes

Before anyone points it out Braddock was a disastrous general in the war against the French, not the American revolution.

[Dr. Nick]

any Crimean War general

RAGLAN!
RAGLAN!
RAGLAN!
RAGLAN!
RAGLAN!
YAY!