REAL HEROES NAMES for each civ (please participate in this project)

[Kickasso]

Update for France:

1. Vercingetorix
2. St. Louis IX
3. Philip Augustus
4. Charles V
5. Raymond St. Gilles
6. Napoleon
7. De Gaulle
8.

If no more heroes appears I think I'll make exception for France and put Roland in this list

[Kickasso]

I need your help for Iroquios, Aztec, Indian & Japanese Heroes!!!

[Rosacrux]

An ancient Greek you asked for?

Some Greek heroes:

- Achilleas (the legendary warlord mentioned in Homers Iliad, great warrior and greater lover... the Greek way of course )

- Leonidas (the King of Sparta, the one who led 300 Spartans and 700 Thespians against an army of 500.000 and died in full glory among his men).

- Pericles (the head of the Athenian state, the "Golden Age" of the Athenian Democracy named after him. Not a warmonger, but in his times the Peloponesian war started)

- Themistokles (the man who invented the Greek navy - the same man who managed to lead a fleet of 300 triremes that exterminated the might of the great Persian warfleet)


- Belisarius (a great military leader, Greek by no doubt, fought for Justinian and reclaimed the Italian peninsula and north Africa for the Byzantine empire)

- Basil Bulgaroctonos (the great leader of Byzantium, who managed to defeat all the enemies of the empire and restore it's former glory)

- Kolokotronis (the greatest hero of the Greek revolution after 1821, led the struggle for Greek independance)

- Pavlos Melas (the greatest hero of the Macedonian Wars in the early 20th century. Led the Greek troops who defended the Greek province of Macedonia against the Bulgarian invaders).


If you need more, just ask...

[Plan Austral]

I hope this is useful, if you want i can ask in civfanatics to same people about chinese leaders.

And excuse me, i know my english sucks.

Persian Leaders.

Cyrus the great-
he unified the different persian tribes to form the persian empire, he conquered Lydia and Babylon.

Cambyses II-
Son of Cyrus the great, for a while he was the satrap of Babylon, but when his father died he became the ruler.
His biggest achieve was the conquest of Egypt.

Darius the great-
He was the successor of Cambyses II,he conquered the Indus Valley (half of India), Thracia and the greek cities in the turkish coast.

Itaphrenes-He killed the Magi Gaumata and helped Darius to became king,(It is a large story), after Darius accession, many satrapies revolted, including Babylon, Itaphrenes suppressed the revolt. After that he became the second most important man of the kingdom, Darius later killed him becouse Itaphrenes was just to powerful.

Datis- One of the most important Persian generals of Darius, he was the one who participated in the Battle of Marathon.

Mithrades- Parthian king (something like the secon persian empire), he conquered media, elam and babylon.

Shapur- sassanid(sp?) king,It would be like the third persian empire after the parthians.During his wars against Roman emperor Gordian III was killed, and emperor Valerian was captured! completely humiliating Rome.

Megabazus, another persian general of Darius, he fought against the scythians, he conquered some cities in Thrace and conluded a treaty with Macedonia wich became a vassal kingdom.

[molly bloom]

1. Albin - VI century
2. William the Conqueror - XI century
3. Richard "Lion Heart" - XIII century
4. other crusade period heroes if be mentioned (Howard of Effingham or someone else)
5. Martin Frobisher - but I would like to hear more about his records
6. William Wallace - XIV century
7. Wellington - XIX century
8. Montgomery - XX century


Sorry, but who is Albin in the 6th Century in English/British history?

Although I have reservations about listing William the Conqueror as an English/British hero, I feel that Richard the Lionheart would be better replaced by a more successful king and commander- such as Edward I, Edward III, Henry V. Richard was rarely at home during his reign, and also present/responsible for some decidedly unchivalrous behaviour in the campaigns in the Holy Land.

Now as to the maritime heroes, my reasoning went along the lines that after the Hundred Years' War, and more especially after the loss of Calais during the reign of Mary Tudor, English disengagement from the continent meant that success/expansion had to be sought overseas, whether through a policy of (im)plausible deniability under Elizabeth I, or through aggressive expansion as part of government policy, under the Republic/Commonwealth and later under William and Mary, and Queen Anne and the Hanoverians. This being the case, the naval heroes tying in with the English U.U., seemed a reasonably good choice.

Thus:

George Monck

http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/people/A0833687.html

As much a survivor and politician as Talleyrand in France, and an able commander, both at sea and on land.

See also http://members.tripod.com/~Strathbog...r_article.html

his part in the victory at Dunbar over the Covenanters, and his formation of the Coldstream Guards.

[molly bloom]

4. other crusade period heroes if be mentioned (Howard of Effingham or someone else)
5. Martin Frobisher - but I would like to hear more about his records
6. William Wallace - XIV century


Lord Admiral Howard was commander of the English Fleet that defeated the Armada:

Nottingham, Charles Howard, 1st earl of,

1536-1624, English nobleman. A member of one of the branches of the Howard family, he succeeded his father as Baron Howard of Effingham in 1573. He was first cousin to Queen Elizabeth I, to whom he rendered distinguished service-military, naval, and civil. Appointed (1585) lord high admiral, he commanded the English fleet that defeated the Spanish Armada (1588) and shared command (with the 2d earl of Essex) of the expedition against Cádiz (1596). He was created (1597) earl of Nottingham and in 1599 was given command of both land and sea forces. Nottingham continued his service under James I, remaining lord high admiral until 1619.


Martin Frobisher, explorer, sometime privateer, and naval commander during the Armada:

http://www.pbs.org/empireofthebay/profiles/frobisher.html

Frobisher, Sir Martin , 1535?–1594, English mariner. He went to sea as a boy, and spent much of his youth in the African trade. He later gained the friendship of Sir Humphrey Gilbert, through whom he became interested in the Northwest Passage. Licensed by Queen Elizabeth I and backed by a group of merchant adventurers, Frobisher made three voyages (1576, 1577, and 1578) to the arctic regions in search of the passage. On his first voyage he sailed into Frobisher Bay to S Baffin Island, and from its shores brought back some black ore thought to contain gold and an Eskimo to prove his belief that he had actually reached fabled Cathay. Returning to Baffin Island on his next two journeys, he explored Frobisher Bay to its head and penetrated a short distance up Hudson Strait. Since his geographical discovery was slight and no gold was revealed in his cargoes of ore, Frobisher's name was discredited for a time. However, he won new glory in 1585 as commander of a ship in Sir Francis Drake's expedition to the West Indies and was knighted for his services with Drake and Sir John Hawkins in the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. He died as the result of wounds received at Brest during an English campaign against the Spanish. The narratives of his voyages, first published in 1578, have passed through several editions. The Three Voyages of Martin Frobisher by George Best was edited from the original 1578 text by Vilhjalmur Stefansson (1937).

Out of respect to the Scots posters, I should point out that William Wallace is not an English hero....

'With the phenomenal success of Stirling Bridge under his belt, Sir William Wallace, Guardian of the Realm of Scotland, continued his campaign of guerilla warfare upon the Northern English counties.'

from http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/menu8.html

[Dr. Nick]

Japanese- Yamamoto? Tojo?

For the French, what about Leclerc if you're falling short on them?

Germans- I don't see why you can't use successful generals of the Wermacht during the 3rd Reich period. They were generals, they were successful and many of them were war heroes. What about Schlieffen? von Tirpitz or von Spee could be an idea (pity he as an Admiral so he doesn't really count).

English- Cromwell? Harold I? Alfred the Great? Monty (not Python! )? You could also even add William of Orange to the list of English heroes, as he lead the "Glorious Revolution" if I'm not mistaken. We could even add whoever commanded the troops that burnt Washington in the war of 1812.

[EarnhardtFan]

For My games, I fill the list of German heroes with Generals from World War II.

[Deity Montezuma]

For Aztec

1.Cuauhtemoc
2.Cuitlahuac
3.Moctezuma not Montezuma
4.Tizoc
5.Itzcoatl
6.Huitzilihuitli

Or if you are like me i traded the Aztec's for the Mexican's.
The leader's names are

1.Agustin De Iturbe (1st pres. of Mexico)
2.Miguel Hidalgo (father of the independence)
3.Benito Juarez (the battle against the invading french on the 5th of may ocurred)
4.Pancho Villa (Revolutionary hero)
5.Emiliano Zapata (Revolutionary hero)
6.General Santa Anna
7.Maria Morelos

This is a quick list..

[Harovan]

Originally posted by El Awrence
Germans- I don't see why you can't use successful generals of the Wermacht during the 3rd Reich period. They were generals, they were successful and many of them were war heroes. What about Schlieffen? von Tirpitz or von Spee could be an idea (pity he as an Admiral so he doesn't really count).

Although I don't like it much, I'd agree with Manstein, Rommel and may be Guderian, they were great generals, but would vehemently complain if anybody would call Reichsmarschall Goering (Chief of Luftwaffe and one of Hitler's inner circle), Sepp Dietrich (Leader of the SS division Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler") or others alike "German heroes". About Schlieffen: If you need a leader from the German imperial period, rather take Helmuth Graf von Moltke, he at least won his campaigns. Schlieffen was not very successful with his WWI strategies. Von Tirpitz and von Spee were naval leaders and IMHO are out.

OT (edit): Heck, did anybody have 8 leaders in his games? I often play with militaristic trait and had at most 3 or 4 in a game (don't remember exactly, as they don't have a long life expectancy in my games).

[Kickasso]

Great work friends! I hope this discussion helps very much to rank and evaluate each civ heroes in a history (I respect Sir Ralph's position of 3rd Reich period of Germany as a grieved page of it's history - the same feelings I sometimes have for communism period in Russia but I repeat - I completely out of politic and have only one criteria - military records, mostly victorious)

why I ask for 8 leaders: I experienced that on huge map for the whole period of history I often have 6-7 leaders (not all of them survive till the end of game ) and thus I decided that 8 will be quite enough for all civs (even military)

To Deity Montezuma: Thanks for your list (I see 2 of heroes unknown for me completely - Cuitlahuac & Moctezuma). I think I will also include in final 8 heroes list 2 mexican heroes if nobody mind

Aztec's Heroes Preliminary List:
1. Cuauhtemoc
2. Cuitlahuac
3. Moctezuma not Montezuma
4. Tizoc
5. Itzcoatl
6. Huitzilihuitli
7. Benito Juarez
8. General Santa Anna

To El Awrence: Thanks for suggestions. Leclerc could fit France list. Regarding William of Orange - I really doubt if he is English not Ireland and general not political figure...

Thanks to molly bloom for detailed review of British history. After it I would like to release newer list for British

Latest British Heroes List:

1. Albin
2. Alfred the Great - IX century
3. William the Conqueror - despite his origin England count him as a hero
4. Richard the Lionheart - 100% warlord king
5. Edward - I decided not to select Edward III or Edward I "Longshanks" - just Edward
6. George Monck - XVII century
7. Wellington - XIX century
8. Montgomery - XX century

Regarding Albin - "...Albin, who defeatet the Danish-Viking invasion around 500, I think..." read the post above from Manstein3.

Special thanks to Kublai-Khan & Rosacrux for Persia and Greek Heroes List

Thus Initial List for Persia:
1. Cyrus the Great
2. Cambyses II
3. Darius the Great
4. Itaphrenes - but he's military records are questionned
5. Datis
6. Mithrades
7. Shapur - was not victorious unfortunately.
8. Megabazus

My only question was Sargon a Persian or Assysium King?

Base List for Greek:
1. Achilleas - If Illiad was a real chronicle
2. Leonidas
3. Pericles
4. Themistokles - only problem of his naval records, not ground victories
5. Belisarius
6. Basil Bulgaroctonos
7. Kolokotronis
8. Pavlos Melas

I think there are many more heroes were in Ancient Greece...Could you mention little more.

7 Civs almost completed! Carry ON!! and thanks again for your efforts, friends

Kickasso

[Kickasso]

Latest France Heroes List:

1. Vercingetorix
2. St. Louis IX
3. Philip Augustus
4. Charles V
5. Raymond St. Gilles
6. Leclerc
7. Napoleon
8. De Gaulle

Is it OK or any more corrections/critics/adds

[Rosacrux]

Well, yes of course there are more great leaders or heroes in the ancient Greek world, but by giving you those 8 names I just wanted to make sure that a)the whole span of Greek history (and not only ancient Greece) would be represented and b)that you get the most outstanding guys.

About Achileas... well, yes, there is this little question about the accuracy of the Iliad (the ransack of Troy IS a historical fact, see Sleemans work) and the names it contains.

Problem is, if you take him out, you leave a large portion of Greek military history (the Achean era) without representation.

Viables alternatives for the ancient era (instead of Achilles and Themistokles) :

Dionysios of Syracusae, the man who leaded the great city-state of Syracusae at it's peak, created a little empire, defeated Karthago etc. etc.

As a viable alternative, for the ancient times, you can use Pyrrhos, the King of Hepirus who invaded the Italian peninsula, beated the Romans, but had to return due to the lack of adequate forces before ransacking Rome (hence "Pyrrheus victory" - the victory you have to pay for with great losses).

He was also the first to use war elephants in the "West"

Or you could try Andiochos the Great, a leader of the hellenistic kingdom of the Seleukides, famous for his many military feats.

...the list is really endless.

But, please, keep the proportion 4 ancient - 2 Byzantine - 2 modern Greek. It's representative to the whole span of the Greek history.

[Plan Austral]

We can change Shapur and replace him with Chosroes II
He was the biggest enemy of the byzantine empire until the arrive
of the arabs, he conquered Syria, Israel, Egypt, Cyprus and Rhodes.And for 8 years it seemed as if the Achaemenian empire was restored.In 627 byzantine emperor Heraclious reconquered his lost possessions.

Sargon was the first man who reunified all mesopotamia, he was akkadian.He wasnt persian or assyrian. And his empire existed 2.200 years before Jesus, maybe he qualifies for the Babylonians, becouse in the game they include all the mesopotamian cultures.

We can replace Itaphrenes with Sha Ismail,of the safavid dinasty, to have a leader of the muslim persia.
His original reign was in Azerbaijan and he conquered a territory that extended from Herat in Afhganistan to Bagdad.

[Kickasso]

Well Rosacrux there is the sense in your words...

I only would like to include Pyrrhos as the one of the most victorious warlords of an Ancient Greece

So I propose the finalization of Greek Heroes List as:

1. Achilleas - I decided to put him on without any doubts of his legendary origin by Illiad - I have very strong feeling that it's real hero (hope that's true)
2. Leonidas
3. Pericles
4. Pyrrhos - replace for Themistokles (he's naval hero as Nelson, Drake, Ushakov etc and thus must be excluded)
5. Belisarius
6. Basil Bulgaroctonos
7. Kolokotronis
8. Pavlos Melas

Agree?

Proportion as you desired 4-2-2. Thanks again!