REAL HEROES NAMES for each civ (please participate in this project)

[Kickasso]

Thanks again Kublai-Khan!

I propose the following list for Persia (according to your comments/suggestions):

1. Cyrus the Great
2. Cambyses II
3. Darius the Great
4. Datis
5. Mithrades
6. Chosroes II
7. Sha Ismail
8. Megabazus

Looks great but Rosacrux gave me an idea of historical proportion for heroes 4-2-2 = ancient/middle/modern times. For Persia I thim it should be 3-4-1 according to real civ history. So If you could suggest one modern or close to the modern period Persian Hero - it would be great!

[Ecthy]

you guys seem to ovwerrate Gneisenau. If a 19th century Napoleonic Age guy has to be leader, then make it Blücher

[Kickasso]

Interesting to see how active german guys here ;-)

Ok I propose the following (#6 will be a competition winner)

1. Hermann the Cherusker - I century (thank to Manstein3 for mark)
2. Karl Martell - VIII century
3. Karl the Great - IX century (I think it's correct to consider him German Hero)
4. Friedrich I 'Barbarossa' - XIV century
5. Friedrich II the Great - XVIII century

6. Three candidates here:

a/ Gneisenau,
b/ Blücher (please spell his name on english)
c/ Moltke

- please vote


7. Manstein - XX century (I really think what military leaders always out of political states)
8. Guderian - XX century (beat Rommel in competition for last nomination)

Kickasso

[Harovan]

Wipe Guderian out and take Blücher (respecting Ecthelion, write Blucher, btw there was a russian general with the same name, I happened to live once at the "prospekt marshala blyukhera") and Moltke. Why both? Because they participated in different wars. Gneisenau in the Napoleonic (1st half of XIX century) and Moltke in the German-Austrian and German-French war in the 2nd half of the XIX century, while Manstein and Guderian participated in the same war.

EDIT: By the way, I'd rather take Rommel than Manstein. While commanding troups, Manstein was rather a master of theory/strategy, but Rommel was a real leader.

[Ecthy]

Blücher or Bluecher in English...

He was the hero of Waterloo... the English general is said to have said "Either it gets night before the battle starts or the Prussians arrive..."

And soon after dusk, the trumpets of Blücher's armies could be heard, and there was another chance for ultra-conservative powers to reign Europe for another 100 years

[Kickasso]

Our success is close! I would like to repeat all completed or almost completed civs:

Russians (final):
1. Svyatoslav
2. Alexander Nevsky
3. Dmitry Donskoy
4. Ivan The Terrible
5. Peter The Great
6. Alexander Suvorov
7. Mikhail Kutuzov
8. George Zhukov

Germans (base):
1. Hermann the Cherusker
2. Karl Martell
3. Karl the Great
4. Friedrich I 'Barbarossa'
5. Friedrich II the Great
6. Three candidates here:

a/ Gneisenau,
b/ Blücher (please spell his name on english)
c/ Moltke

7. Manstein
8. Guderian

Roman (base):
1. Claudius
2. Trajan
3. Attilius Regulus
4. Octavian
5. Scipio Africanus
6. Diocletian
7. Gaius Laelius
8. Arbogast

France (base):
1. Vercingetorix
2. St. Louis IX
3. Philip Augustus
4. Charles V
5. Raymond St. Gilles
6. Leclerc
7. Napoleon
8. De Gaulle

British (final):
1. Albin
2. Alfred the Great
3. William the Conqueror
4. Richard the Lionheart
5. Edward
6. George Monck
7. Wellington
8. Montgomery

Aztec (base):
1. Cuauhtemoc
2. Cuitlahuac
3. Moctezuma not Montezuma
4. Tizoc
5. Itzcoatl
6. Huitzilihuitli
7. Benito Juarez
8. General Santa Anna

Greeks (pre-final):
1. Achilleas
2. Leonidas
3. Pericles
4. Pyrrhos
5. Belisarius
6. Basil Bulgaroctonos
7. Kolokotronis
8. Pavlos Melas

Persian (pre-final):
1. Cyrus the Great
2. Cambyses II
3. Darius the Great
4. Datis
5. Mithrades
6. Chosroes II
7. Sha Ismail
8. Megabazus

for American I think we accept original list but there only 7 persons there (draw your attention - all are generals, not politics or fantasy folks as for say Russia or Roman)

1. Washington
2. Grant
3. Lee
4. Sherman
5. Jackson
6. MacArthur
7. Patton
8. ??? - your ideas (Rivere, Lafaette, Powell )

P.S. Yeah..rather weak persons in compare with Europe and Ancient civs but anyway they had some victories (but don't try to ensure me they were great, even for Washington)

NOTE:
We need Iroquios, Egypt (Ancient mostly - I think I will post initial list soon), Japanese (two heroes already marked by El Awrence), China (IanChinese - where are you?), India (I searched Indian Official Military Site but there is only modern heroes not Ancient), Babylon and finally ZULU!!!

Kickasso

[Kickasso]

German Heroes Final List:

...guys, please finalize it as you wish...(washing my hands )

P.S. See previous posts for persons

[Plan Austral]

I think that the best proportion for the persians would be
4 ancient (golden age)
1 parthian
1 sassanian
1 muslim period (middle ages)
1 muslim period (modern times)

I will ask in a forum of iranian people wich ones they prefer.
And i will ask to a guy in Civfanatics about the chinese conquerors, he knows all about china.

[Harovan]

6. Blücher (Bluecher or Blucher)
7. Moltke
8. Rommel

Ecthelion?

[Manstein3]

I have to correct on the English first hero: His name is Alfred the Great, king of Wessex, who after heavy fighting (building of castles and a fleet) defeated finally the Danish at Edington 878 and conquered and fortified London. The following rulers Edward and Aethelstan defeated the remaining Danish posessions on English soil.

@Sir Ralph
I would not agree in putting Rommel on the list. He may be the most known one, especially in Britaqin and the USA, because he fought against them, but from a strategical point of view, Manstein was the fas better man. You can verify this: Manstein created the plan of the Panzer-Raid through the Ardennes in the flank of the enemy's main forces, Guderian led the decisive tank corps, and Rommel led the spearhead (or made his division the spearhead by advancing day and night) of the offensive, the 7. tank division, called 'ghost division' by the enemy because it was always 30 miles ahead of the spot reported.
Manstein, being a tank division commander usually, at that time surprisingly was in Poland commanding a reserve unit... The reason for this: the first class generals of the General staff did not like his plan - he was a 'simple' general at that time. (That is like a student who tells how things have to be done to his teachers.)
Mansteins greatest acchievements were astounding operation at the Russian front. Rommels tactical tricks are no match to the deeds of a strategic genius like Manstein. But Manstein really led his troops at the Russian front like Rommel in one of the first tanks of the attacks.
Later he became commander of the 11.Army which conquered Sevastopol against a highly superior enemy in numbers. Then he became commander of an Army Group or 3 Armys. Since then he could not lead his troops anymore at the battlefield but most important role of a military leader is winning battles, not individual bravery on the frontline.

Ralph, I totally agree that guys like Sepp Dietrich should be ignored.. It is better even to not drop their names at all. They do not deserve it.

[Plan Austral]

Here are some leaders of India from its classical age(from 500 bc to 600 ac).
It is imposible to know leaders older than this ones becouse we know very little about the harappan and mohenjo-daro civilizations.

-Chandragupta Maurya :He was an indian traveler and adventurer who traveled with Alexander the great when he conquered the Indus Valley.Someway he form an army and conquered the kingdom of magadha (capital pataliputra) the ganges valley and he also conquered the indus valley from Seleucus.

-Bindusara: He conquered the deccan plateau .Son of Chandragupta Maurya.

-Asoka:He conquered the kingdom of Kalinga.Son of Bindusara.

-Smadragupta: (Gupta dinasty, not mauryan) He conquered all the Ganges Valley.

Chandragupta II Gupya dinasty, not relative of chandragupta maurya son of samadragupta). His reign is usually seen as the golden age of Indian history.He pushed west, destroying the last of the Sakas and conquering the Gujarat peninsula. Because of that the empire had seaports on both the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea. At this point expansion stopped--not because of weakness or lack of will from the Guptas, but because it was no longer necessary--all surrounding states paid tribute and acknowledged Gupta supremacy

King Porus:He was the king in the Indus valley who fought agains Alexander.Alexander suffered serious losses, it was also the first war with war-elephants.



The most Important of These ones are Chandragupta Maurya, Chandragupta II, Asoka and King Porus.
Iithink that they should be to represent the classical period in India.
But i don´t know anything about middle ages and modern times in India.

[Killerdaffy]

@manstein3: I can see that you are bound by your nick, I still prefer Rommel, though. Look at it from the political correctness point of view. Rommel was killed for being to close to the resistance movement, while Manstein kept completely out of it.

[Manstein3]

@Killerdaffy
You are right, Manstein stayed aside of the attempt to overthrow the Nazi-Regime, but he sympathized. His argument was that he was too busy saving German troops of annihilation at the Eastern front. There is a story an officer of Mansteins staff told at TV: Manstein usually debated with Hitler to make reasonable desicions at the fronlines (and demanded even to give him the supreme command at the Eastern front), but normally could not get through. When he left the meeting and met his staff officer, he usually said about Hitler shaking his head in disbelieve: What an idiot.

Rommel wasn't part of the fronde against Hitler but the nominated leader of a post-Hitler-Germany. But he got wounded days before the failed assassination of Hitler, so he could not lead. Otherwise maybe despite of the failing to kill Hitler the overthrow would have taken place. In paris, for instance, the Wehrmacht (Army) had already put into prison all SS and Gestapo leaders...

[Kickasso]

Ok, Manstein I replace first British hero to Boudicea even despite her legendary origin. I suppose she was a real person of Celts history

British Final Heroes List:
1. Boudicea
2. Alfred the Great
3. William the Conqueror
4. Richard the Lionheart
5. Edward
6. George Monck
7. Wellington
8. Montgomery

Kublai-Khan, thanks a Lot for Indian history review - it's hard to find any info as I experienced for last couple of days

Thus, initial Indian Heroes List is:
1. Chandragupta Maurya
2. Bindusara
3. Ashoka
4. Shivaji
5. Smadragupta
6. Chandragupta II
7. Porus
8. Tilak

Please mark if I missed someone great person here.

[Kickasso]

Ok, promised Initial Egypt Heroes List:

1. Na'rmer - Their is evidence that there were battles fought by both Scorpion, and Na'rmer. Na'rmer is thought to have been the first king to unite Egypt. Probably he's not victorious but counted as first pharaon and army founder.

2. Weni - General Weni gave the army an organizational foundation which lasted well into the New Kingdom.

3. Mentuhotep II - Mentuhotep led a series of campaigns which defeated the Herakleopolitans and initiated the Middle Kingdom.

4. Senusret - led a campaign to Lybia, and expeditions to Nubia.

5. Kamose - led Egyptian forces against the Hyksos. He strategically used the desert oasis, which allowed him to hide from Hyksos forces and strike when and where he wanted.

6. Tuthmose - led over 20 campaigns in which he maintained Egypt's borders from Syria to the third cataract

7. Ramses - was a great general of the New Kingdom period. His campaigns maintained the borders of Egypt despite poor odds in battle

8. ??? Maybe someone of middle/modern ages?