America isn't old enough to be in Civ3

[Bereta_Eder]

MatTbone,

there I was peacefully reading about the origin of languages and when I came across the greek language I also find a comment by you saying Greek (they are silly aren't they



decipher this: Ôé ìáëáêßåò Ã¥ÃÃïïýóåò;

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

But a divided and weakened Europe guaranteed the US hegemony over the Western hemishphere and practically over the whole World. Hopefully, the European unification (including Eastern Europe) and a strategical alliance with Russia (resources) will bring up a bit more competition. Competition is good for business.

It will be much more competition if you include us in EU

[Serb]

Originally posted by Fresno
You can't compare the Roman era with the modern one. One of the typical things developed in European history is nationalism - every tiny people wanting independence.

Another pretty thing is brainwashing.
With use of this little invention and modern mass media it is much easier to control occupied territories for a longer time. I mean each new generation will want independence less and less.

[Harovan]

Including your vast Asian part?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Including your vast Asian part?

What's wrong about that part?
In that case EU will be read as Euroasian Union.

[Harovan]

I generally don't mind to include Russia, in the countrary. But I doubt that the politicians will ask me. There are a few (pretty hard) conditions to get in the EU though, and Russia doesn't match them yet. There's a lot left to do, in Russia and the present EU, to be serious competitors.

Pozhivyom, uvidim.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I generally don't mind to include Russia, in the countrary. But I doubt that the politicians will ask me. There are a few (pretty hard) conditions to get in the EU though, and Russia doesn't match them yet. There's a lot left to do, in Russia and the present EU, to be serious competitors.

Pozhivyom, uvidim.

It was a joke of course
Men, I am really impressed by your russian.

P.S. Odin hren my ih sdelaem kogda nibud

[Dry]

Originally posted by Arrian
One of the best courses I took in college was called historeography (essentially - the method of history). The central message was this: examine your source material critically. Often, when there are multiple sources relating to the same event, you will find discrepancies. It is up to you to attempt to determine which version is closest to the truth. That can be very hard. With events near to us, like WWII, it is especially difficult in that cultural & national pride is involved, and so is ideology.

This is an interresting method, athough I guess that the most interresting part was indeed "how to determine which version is closest to the truth?".

I like, in this 'search of the truth', something that I didn't knew was in fact called the Marxist analysis. It is close to the police method for solving crimes:
look at which has the most benefit in the crime - even at long term; he is suspect #1.
The only problem is to remeber that being suspect does not mean being guilty.

I also tend to give more credit to the independent source, when there is one.

And don't forget the question #1 to see through the propaganda fog: What is not said? What is not on the picture?

[Fresno]

Originally posted by Serb
It was a joke of course

Ah, I already wondered... IMO, Russia is far too large to include - it would reduce the power of the smaller European countries Germany, England, France, Italy... and they would never agree with that. Especially the French and the English wouldn't.

[Bereta_Eder]

dp

and with that I take the opportunity for a better answer


The main obstacle in future entrance of Russia in the EU is how to accomodate such a large country in the EU institutions and that the EU should get a very close relationship and agreements with Russia but can't let her in.


In my opinion this is a pseudo - dillema and when the time comes it will collapse.

Every thing in the EU's institutions is based on population. (of course there are other things but that's the institutionilized one).


Germany has a population of 80 millions far bigger than any other EU country.

Russia has about 120 million if I am not mistaken.

The difference is not so huge that it should constitute an insurpassaple obstacle.

The instututions will be able to accomodate Russia. And all the big countries of EU can still be outnumbered by the smaller in the decision making - processes so it's not really a question of absolutes. Also when that time comes don't be surprised if the big countries of the EU will vote in favor too. (Germany, France comes to mind).

EU and Russia's future belong together.

[Bereta_Eder]

The greek PM has said it "Russia's natural place is in Europe"

So it's settled Russia in the EU NOW

[Serb]

Originally posted by paiktis22

EU and Russia's future belong together.

Yes, you are right.
But...
While our population is about 150 millions it is not the biggest problem. Sir Ralph was correct when said- “There's a lot left to do, in Russia and the present EU…». We (I mean Russians) are not ready yet. First of all we have to make our economy more prosperous, and there are many other things left to do before we can be included in EU. And don’t forget that we very young democracy, in civ’s terms we just survive a period of anarchy, I can't describe ten years of Yeltsin’s rule with better words. But someday it will happen, I hope. And then, together, we can make a serious competition to Americans.

P.S. I am seriously thinking that someday-whole planet will unite before the face of external danger (space bugs attack or something like this).

[TacticalGrace]

Originally posted by Troll
go play, re-write history and enjoy

okay lets re-write history.

What if... America had been a civilisation founded in 4000 BC independant of any other civ.

(1) Why is their capitol called Washington DC? Who was Washington and why does he have such an English sounding name ?
(2) Why do they have another city called New York?
(3) What is the name of their language? "Americans discover Writing" Looks suspiciously like they stole it from the English, actually.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace


okay lets re-write history.

What if... America had been a civilisation founded in 4000 BC independant of any other civ.

(1) Why is their capitol called Washington DC? Who was Washington and why does he have such an English sounding name ?
(2) Why do they have another city called New York?
(3) What is the name of their language? "Americans discover Writing" Looks suspiciously like they stole it from the English, actually.

As I said "re-write history" and play this as I am sure it was intended, as entertainment & enjoyment, not the lot of bitterness and resentment that is continously mentioned here.

As for Washington D.C., it was not the original Capital of the US, but rather New York was.

Perhaps they called New York "New York" because it was a term of endearment to a former location "York" which provided some good memories, not necessarily a good living environment (the original York).

As for "stealing", well in this game as well as other games, when we "re-write" history, then that is exactly what we are doing. no offense, but I detect a lot of bitterness from other than "American" folks whom play this game that really amounts to a small amount of frustration. Please, we are not "re-writing actual history books, just "re-writing" a series of fictional events on a plastic CD, in this case "Civilization III". I for one have tons of fun, I dont look at this game and say "DRats" they could have never accomplished that, because I see that i bought this for some long-lasting enjoyment and entertainment, not to rebuke some data files for not allowing me to be first to be in space or the seconf or third .......I say kick back, eat a hot wing, sip on a Pepsi-Cola or Sweet Tea and let the games of Conquest continue!


Yours In Civin

Troll

[Arrian]

IIRC, the old capitol of the USA was Philadelphia. New York, to the best of my knowledge, has never been the capitol of anything besides New York State.

-Arrian

EDIT: *SMACKS SELF* Albany, of course, is the capitol of NY State. Since I live in Connecticut, I really ought to have caught that mistake. Oops.