America isn't old enough to be in Civ3

[Oligarf]

Originally posted by Rothy
WOT!?!?!?!
England Controlled 1/4 of the Globe I'll have you know!! Our Empire is perhaps the greatest Empire in HISTORY!!, Yes these days we are just a mighty nation, but at one time we were a glorious formidable civilisation!!. We then decided to be kind and give the other places thier independance.

Still thinking of Rome as a civ feels different from thinking of Britain as a civ.

[Dauphin]

I would bet that in a few thousand years England will be seen in the same light as Ancient Rome or Ancient Greece.

[Fresno]

Originally posted by Oligarf
"Allah, bless America!"

"God zij met ons"
(Dutch for: "May God bless us")
You're really glad with our new Euro, aren't you?

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I would bet that in a few thousand years England will be seen in the same light as Ancient Rome or Ancient Greece.

I think it's more likely they will see Europe in that light. In all history, I think England, France and Spain were more or less equally important. I know England had its great time, but so had many other European countries.

[King of Rasslin]

AMERICA IS THE GREATEST! Period.

No other civilization will be remembered in 1000 years, or 25 for that matter. We are all that is important. Noone cares about Rome because it LOST.

Noone cares about a dead civ because it was destroyed by a greater, more powerful one. Now, America is #1 and we will stay that way because we are the best!

So, we lost to Vietnam because we were not strong enough and our tactics were awful. But they didn't have the guts to take us on! They knew that they couldn't win against America in an offensive war. NOONE CAN!!!!!!!!!

Just compare the number of turns America is in the game. And compare it to the Zulu or the Iroquois. Duh?

Face it we are the greatest and we will ALWAYS be the greatest, because we were the first democracy and we care for the people. Don't even think of using any other civ; they are all worthless compared to us.

[Dauphin]

Brilliant satire.

Say, where you from.

[Fresno]

We've seen countless posts like that which were meant seriously - so I hope you're right and this one is meant as a satire.

[Immortal Khan]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
So you are saying that Civ3 should be a historical simulator instead of a civilization-based strategy game? That's a tired, irrelevant argument, imo.

I agree with this. The game is called Civilization for a reason. It's meant for you to pick a civilization from Earth's history to take it from 4000BC to 2000BC. All civilizations haven't existed through this length of time. Even Egypt was conquered several times and it's impossible to represent this in the game. There is one thing that would be an interesting add on to the game, though (if it can be made into a Modpack or something). What if you take out America as a civ but add the capability of your cities running a chance of declaring independence when they riot. They would form a new civilization and would have to be retaken by force or culturally assimilated back. For example, Enlish found a few new cities on a new continent and because of the distance to the capitol, would run a higher chance of rioting and in each turn of rioting, have a chance of declaring independence and form a new civ called America! This would add a new interesting twist to the game. What fo you think?

[Immortal Khan]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
So you are saying that Civ3 should be a historical simulator instead of a civilization-based strategy game? That's a tired, irrelevant argument, imo.

I agree with this. The game is called Civilization for a reason. It's meant for you to pick a civilization from Earth's history to take it from 4000BC to 2000BC. All civilizations haven't existed through this length of time. Even Egypt was conquered several times and it's impossible to represent this in the game. There is one thing that would be an interesting add on to the game, though (if it can be made into a Modpack or something). What if you take out America as a civ but add the capability of your cities running a chance of declaring independence when they riot. They would form a new civilization and would have to be retaken by force or culturally assimilated back. For example, Enlish found a few new cities on a new continent and because of the distance to the capitol, would run a higher chance of rioting and in each turn of rioting, have a chance of declaring independence and form a new civ called America! This would add a new interesting twist to the game. What do you think?

[Fresno]

It's an excellent idea - that's why I already came up with it, a long time ago.

[Immortal Khan]

Originally posted by Fresno
It's an excellent idea - that's why I already came up with it, a long time ago.

Well, what came of it?

[Fresno]

When I came up with it (and that's months ago now) I compared the game with Europa Universalis, another great history game, in which concepts as nationalism and religious differences are included (and can cause civil disorder and eventually a civil war/independence).

Some agreed with it, others didn't react.

[Dauphin]

I think most people would agree with the concept, its just how it pans out in terms of gameplay.

Talking of EU as a source of idea...

The thing I like about EU that must somehow be resolved in the Civ series is relations and alliances. In EU it is a lot easier to get people to like you even when the most powerful nation; if you go to war your allies actually help you with meaningful military assistance. In civ everyone hates you, regardless of what you do.

[Immortal Khan]

I never played EU. Civilization/Call to Power is the only turned based empire building game I've played. Every other game has been real time like AOE/AOK, Cossaks, and Empire Earth. And they are more battle oriented (not much politics and diplomacy in those games). Is there a way to add the "revolt against mother country and become a new civ" to the game? Anyways, not having America as a civ is really only relevant if you are playing on the world map and using CPT if you are trying to be "historically accurate". Even then, like I said before, all the other civs didn't start in 4000BC.

[squeeze truck]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

I know that. My point is that playing as the Americans is just a bit silly. In civ terms they are the English, just much later down the line.

Here's a thought.

"America" may not currently be terribly distinct right now, but it may be in the future. In 800 AD, France and Germany were not terribly distinct either. Europe was just one big seething mass of Celts, Franks, Gauls, Goths, and whatnot. The point is, they became distinct over time.

America is home to some cultures that are quite unique however. I offer the following for your consideration:

The Mormons: Wild weird stuff here. Entirely unlike Europe or anything else. Established a theocracy in the middle of the rocky mountains, had their own alphabet, and a very different social order that included polygamy.

"Gangsta" culture: Can anybody quite put their finger on where this comes from? The language has some roots in England, but the rest seems to be a mishmash of African, English, Spanish, and Mexican (native american) influences.
Especially study the "Folk Nation" and "People Nation" phenomenon, with all the rules, dress, and hand signals.
And the graffiti! Who the hell can read that? What language is that?
That isn't European. Uh-uh. No way.

I'm sure there are others, but these came quickly to mind.

[squeeze truck]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Just one salient example of the non-disease extermination of Indians immediately comes to mind- ever hear of Wounded Knee?

Yes, I concede that Europeans did on occasion massacre Native Americans. But let's not be too one sided here. The native americans weren't the innocent noble creatures of Dances with Wolves, either. Native Americans were massacring each other just fine before the Europeans ever arrived.

A great many tribes were also cannibals, including the Iroquois and Aztecs. (funny thing, I learned this as a result of Civ3.)

Read a description of the Aztec sacrifice ritual sometime. I almost threw up. The Aztecs were sick ****ers, and I understand completely why the Spanish might not respect them. I say good riddance to their religion at least.