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  • Originally posted by Old n Slow
    In my defense,

    Noting the fine line between cheating, sleazing & good play I opted for the ‘whatever isn’t explicitly denied is permitted’ sense of rules -- most of the succession games I’ve seen don’t allow restarts, so that was OK by me. I’ve seen some examples of good play (Xinning, use of oedo years) which are now taken for granted. Other techniques, say black clicking, may be considered taboo by some, but might be OK by others. I opted to rehome the camels seeing no prohibition -- so with the adjusted rules, no more rehoming for this game for me. (We will, of course also ignore the comment about the “rehoming of the Salt caravan in SG’s post -- it must’ve been a typo.)
    You correctly point out the need for a set of rules for SXN Games.

    I don't think that was a typo. Read it as, 'we just delivered a van that had been rehomed by someone previously,' and it is very, very clear.

    Originally posted by Old n Slow

    One can only wonder if the extra coins from those markets led to a rushed camel that brought in beakers greater than the beakers that would have been produced by those same investments in the form of libraries.
    I think you miss the concept of annual maintenance. Except for special situations, science will be the prominent slider, until Fundy. With science at 70%, those markets are a drain of 1g/turn. One wonders, what extra coins??

    In the long run, we will need those markets. It is just a question of sequence and remembering the Big Picture while making decisions with long term effects. Science at zero was a special situation and should not have influenced the decision, IMHO.

    "Future Tech"...that's a good one.

    Monk
    so long and thanks for all the fish

    Comment


    • Yes - rah rules for Succession Games are a must...

      Seems I got some games confused with my blithering about Poly, Mono & Mike - will spend a term at The Institute.
      No harm done with the rehoming - we just don't do it again - nice to see the newer members of the Institute giving a robust defense to our olf fartish robust criticism

      SG[1]
      "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
      "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

      Comment


      • Preliminary dubbing = Scouser Rules.
        Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
        RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

        Comment


        • again, we have lots of units on goto? and with as little as our island is, why??? last save also had units on goto as well from the SGs. make note of where units are headed towards and take off goto.

          A couple of items will be finished this turn - harbor in SM, caravan in PoG, Harbor in BV might not be the best choice with aquaduct and library still needed, 3 other caravans in build and of course INC in MC with 3 vans en route. we probably could use a few more roads - beggarsville still only has the roads i built millinia ago and is using unroaded grasslands

          we have 1 aquaduct and 1 uni, 2 libraries, 4 marketplaces, 3 harbors, and all cities have temples.

          1260: get units off goto, tour of workers
          1280: start silk towards romans, gems towards americans, minor worker adjustments, will need 132 gold instead of 3rd caravan and can get Ikes 1 turn earlier
          1300: deliver 2 food and finish ikes, minor worker adjustments. take another glance at AI techs, only tech AI has that we don't is bridgebuilding and physics. germans have great library, so try a couple trades with the germans. see that they are hostile so speed along harbor in Maxwell's Hammer. they demand sanitation, but still icy... chemistry and theory of gravity get them to neutral, but out of techs... contact romans - gift invention to get to receptive, trade for physics (sanitation) and bridge building (horseback riding), enthusiastic so share maps they tire of the conversation.
          Romans now taking econ, Deutsch decide to play hookie from school, Babs experimenting with gunpowder..., spanish surveying bridgebuilding, Yanks exploring concept of higher education, indians dying to learn about medicine. contact indians, gift all techs to indians and share maps, they ignore concept of alliances and break off talks. beakers started at 1155 and end at 1050 with 2 tech gains, indians now not researching anything
          1320: Isaac Newton's College in Mean City. americans discover university, indians start and abandon Ikes. everyone but spanish and Yanks researching gunpowder atm. indians drop from enthusiastic to hostile on the turn change... rush harbors in both beggarsville and maxwell's hammer. hope babs discover gunpowder soon to speed research as germans are back to hostile as well. of course germans revolted so they could talk to me so prob a ways away now. need 226 gold to finish sewer next turn, so raise taxes slightly, dampen science a little more for celebration in Mean City.
          1340: rush sewer in Mean City, side effect is celebration in Pool of Grace, which is building a food caravan and needs an aquaduc, not enough gold for its aquaduct this turn. several more cities could celebrate with 40% lux... many cities need marketplaces too... start tickling caravans and rush harbor.
          1360: Sewer System in Stickie Meanie, more finishing of caravans. Getting all of the AI to revolt from the rep govts, plus all the tech gifting, plus my lowering of science to start celebrations has caused for a general slowdown. only the AI i didn't contact has gained techs, and by trading with each other...
          1400: Silk (d,231) stickie meanie to Antium, Gems (xd, 60, Beggarsville) Gems (xd, 105, Mean City) to Antium, finish bank in Mean City, Aquaduct in pool of grace and beggarsville, marketplace in stickie meanie. considered continuing on to Americans, but was still 14 turns away...
          1420: Gunpowder choose Explosives (debated between that and Econ, but econ should get discovered by someone sometime hopefully). rush harbor in Green Meanie
          1440: Coal (d,42) to Maxwell's Hammer from Heaven's gate (it replaced a route with Mean City???), rush marketplace in Maxwell's Hammer.
          1460: Germans discover gunpowder - oops, meant to gift that to them so they could make another discovery...


          notes to successor: Veii demands gold (Big Bad Bill), and a delivery from Green Meanie should be produce well, even undemanded. Bill will celebrate with a marketplace, but needs a harbor to grow - should be able to make that gold delivery really worth it Stickie meanie is celebrating but needs the aquaduct. Pool of Grace will need sewer to grow past 12 next turn, Beggarsville also needs one to grow in 2 turns. Maxwell's hammer needs aquaduct to grow after next turn. Heaven's Gate also should be able to celebrate with just a marketplace, but needs the aquaduct to grow... Mean City should be able to grow to 22 a couple turns after hitting 21 (18 now, and when at 19 should not have any specialists to keep growing) as i saved the food supply. A complete lack of white goods did hamper initial growth as most cities only had temples. I would liked to have had more ships and more caravans, but there was only so much that could be done, so i put the emphasis on growth. Now that we are getting a few more harbors and marketplaces, libraries should be on the build list along with getting back to caravans (and lowering taxes )

          things go slow when you get invited to dinner several nights in a row at a house without a computer

          and of course the save
          Attached Files
          Insert witty phrase here

          Comment


          • SCG,

            Good turnset. Things are looking good and the long period of "perfection" is well begun.

            We can squeeze in another city between Pool and Beggar, at (110, 224), to give another harbor, boat builder, if someone gets bored.

            I too noticed how the AI moved from Enthusiastic to Hostile overnight. We will need to be careful to plan ahead for any swapping by spending our treasury before contact.

            Monk
            so long and thanks for all the fish

            Comment


            • I will play tonight or tomorrow night. All looks good.
              April City Planner in the 3rd Civ2 Democracy Game
              Read Sluggy Freelance! Watch Homestar Runner! Papa Smurf is a Communist!

              Comment


              • Been busy the last few days. Playing now, will post in a couple hours or so. I'm up in a couple games at CFC also.
                April City Planner in the 3rd Civ2 Democracy Game
                Read Sluggy Freelance! Watch Homestar Runner! Papa Smurf is a Communist!

                Comment


                • Finally...

                  Here is the save. I will post a log tomorrow, after I get some sleep.
                  Attached Files
                  April City Planner in the 3rd Civ2 Democracy Game
                  Read Sluggy Freelance! Watch Homestar Runner! Papa Smurf is a Communist!

                  Comment


                  • well, i'm glad i rushed the aquaduct in Sticky Meanie, otherwise it would still be size 8... looks like there was no rush-buying whatsoever. as constructive critisism, if you were not going to rush buy anything and not grow any of the cities (even mean city didn't celebrate properly or it would be size 23 in republic and would still be growing by celebration right now), why leave luxuries at 40%? you could have gotten more science that way. But celebration growth would have more than made up for the lower tax rate by having several size 20+ size cites that not only produce more trade (ergo science) but can have scientists.

                    As for growth, the reason the tax rate was so high was to facilitate the purchacing of desperately needed structures that allow growth (marketplace, aquaduct, harbor, sewer system and bank). Evey one of our cities can grow via celebration right now if we would rush-buy the structures they are building (well sticky meaning needs a sewer system instead of a bank) except that we have 2 cities supporting caravels - those should have been rehomed at Mean City before switching to Demo, that or discovering industrialization first so they become transports).

                    Another point. Maxwells Hammer is going to waste food if we don't rush-buy the aquaduct this turn, as it is already size 8, is producing 6 surplus food and only needs 10 to grow (food is tabulated before production). Did i mention that if you put 2 of mean city's taxmen to work in the fields it can celebrate as is, even after wasting its food supply? Once we are forced into fundy, we won't be able to use celebrations to grow cities and the larger our cities are at that point, the quicker we can pump out conquering military, either by production or by rush-buying.

                    Ok, constructive critisism placed on hold for now till i see the log
                    Insert witty phrase here

                    Comment


                    • Bob,
                      No 'constructive criticism' from me, since SCG told you all (see previous post).
                      ...except one point: we are researching Conscription, which is no use at all at the moment, since we are at peace with anyone... It would have been a much better idea to choose Magnetism or Steam Engine.

                      Anyway, we have only 4 engineers at work and almost no cash to buy the required improvements if we wish to grow. Hence, lux are reduced to 20 and science to 0 during 2 turns. Then Research = 60, in order to acquire Conscription in 3 turns.

                      Main events:
                      1630: Romans discover Magnetism (kills the power of Lighthouse ). And they say No to our offer ("too busy working on our great project: Adam..."). We have just started researching Steam... so be it!
                      1640: Ready for a small step of growth in smaller cities
                      (the bigger ones, size 12, need both Colloseums and Sewer Systems: too costly at the moment)
                      1660: SE discovered. We start researching RR.
                      Our glorious capital now size 24; smaller cities close to size 8; all cities size 12 have started building Colloseums.
                      Attached Files
                      Aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

                      Comment


                      • The player after me gets a log up before I do??? That's no good.

                        Set tax at 10% tax, 50% science, 40% lux
                        1480 -- Sticky Meanie aquaduct-->bank
                        Babs get Gunpowder
                        Spain gets Bridge Building
                        1500 -- Indians get Gunpowder
                        Romans & Babs stop fighting
                        Romans get chemistry from Americans
                        Americans get invention from Romans
                        Romans and Americans sign a peace treaty
                        1510 -- Romans discover Economics, start A. Smith's
                        Discover explosives-->Metallurgy
                        1530 -- Romans get Gunpowder from Babs
                        Babs get Sanitation from Romans
                        Romans and Babs sign peace treaty
                        1540 -- Mean City builds spice van
                        Discover Metallurgy-->Democracy
                        1560 -- Americans get Physics
                        1570 -- BigBadBill Gold van to Veii-63g Caraval heads to Boston
                        1580 -- Discover Democracy-->Conscription
                        Odeo year, so Revolt to Democracy

                        La Fayette-Consription is a nesscecary step towards Fundy-plus it give us Riflemen. I don't see what's wrong with that.

                        Originally posted by SGC
                        Ok, constructive critisism placed on hold for now till i see the log
                        Well, that's encouraging. I'm glad you have so much faith in me...
                        April City Planner in the 3rd Civ2 Democracy Game
                        Read Sluggy Freelance! Watch Homestar Runner! Papa Smurf is a Communist!

                        Comment


                        • On second thought, RR would be better at this point than Riflemen.
                          on me
                          April City Planner in the 3rd Civ2 Democracy Game
                          Read Sluggy Freelance! Watch Homestar Runner! Papa Smurf is a Communist!

                          Comment


                          • Sorry for sending my log too soon

                            (next time I wait a week before playing )
                            Aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

                            Comment


                            • Next up is the Rabbit.



                              Bet he's surprised.

                              Lafayette:

                              Quand vous jouez plus vite, nous devrons jouer plus vite aussi.
                              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Scouse Gits
                                Play Order

                                SG[1]
                                SG(2)
                                Bloody Monk
                                SCG
                                Bob_Smurf42
                                La Fayette
                                -JRabbit
                                STYOM
                                obiwan18
                                Old n Slow

                                10 turns each please
                                Well played, guys - let's get those cities growing
                                "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                                "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

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