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The Infotrader/Infiltrator Network - Diplomacy plug-in
Just got this from Illu. He doesn't mentioned a word about the Maniac Plan.
Well, our turn is nearing. Just reminding you that we'll send Mobility preaccepted next turn (2148) (due to Spartan claims about length of embargo). We got no response from Mart, on your plans for research after you get Flexibility. We would like to suggest a common beeline, however, estimates of your Flex completion year and rough estimate of your research rate are needed to validate if this is workable. It would either involve going for development of calculus or restriction lifting technologies.
I don't have time for maintaining the diplomacy anymore. Next week I'm gone and lot's of preparations still need to be done between working hours.
He who knows others is wise.
He who knows himself is enlightened. -- Lao Tsu
>From: Linfrew@aol.com
>To: marcin777@hotmail.com, GeoModder@hotmail.com
>Subject: ACDG3 - New Sparta proposal
>Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:22:25 EST
>
>has been posted in the Embassy:
>
>************************************************** ****************************
>*************
>
>To: The Data Angels
>
>A more direct proposal:
>
>The Data Angels are currently researching Doctrine:Flexibility and will have
>it in 2-3 years
>
>The Spartan Federation will send - this turn, pre-accepted - to the Data
>Angels the technologies of:
>
>
>Social Psych
>Doctrine Mobility
>Doctrine Flexibility (with the trade restriction below)In consideration for
>which, the Data Angels undertake:
>
>
>to change their research to Doctrine:Loyalty, and send it to us the year they
>research it
>not to build the Command Nexus
>not to trade Doc:Loyalty or Doc: Flexibility to third parties until Sparta
>has completed the Command NexusWe recognoze that asking the Data Angels to
>forswear for a year or two your championing of the "free flow of information" might
>be "painful" and that is why we are prepared to offer this 3 for 1 tech
>exchange that will leave both our factions immeasurably better off than otherwise.
>
>We are interested in your response
>
>Lt.Col Googlie
>
>************************************************** ****************************
>***************
>
>If there is no interest, can someone let me know ASAP, and I'll send the turn
>on
>
>If there is interest, but you need more time, let me know and I'll ask the
>mods for another 24 hours
>
>Googlie
>
>
>
>
I took the liberty of asking him to request a 24 hour delay in forwarding the turn.
At first look, we could easily keep our promise to the Gaians of forwarding Doc:Flex to them when we would have normally finished it (but of course the Gaians have given nothing to us), for I suspect the Spartans will go for Command Nexus asap to take it away from under Yangs' nose.
So, the gain for us is 3 techs, and the Spartans will have commando battle units.
't Looks like the Angels are being courted by two factions at the same time.
It's getting really complicated now.
Do we accept this 3 for 1 deal, and blow out of the airlock our tech trade deal with the Gaians?
Or do we simply give Doc:Flex to them later on when we are 'allowed' to sooth their annoyance at this (or trade it for another tech, even lower in value).
Also, if we receive those 3 techs from the Spartans, will Doc:Loy be available to us for further researching it?
It looks clear to me that if we don't agree to this, the Spartans will probably probe Yang 'till they have Doc:Loy, but at this moment are still on good terms with the Hive and prefer to keep it that way for a while.
I think it is in our interest to accept the Spartan deal, and offer Doc:Flex to the Gaians at around the year (2151 IIRC) we would normally have researched it (this must be a condition of ours then on the Spartans).
Thoughts? We got 24 hours.
Last edited by GeoModder; November 9, 2004, 22:57.
He who knows others is wise.
He who knows himself is enlightened. -- Lao Tsu
I agree on the condition, that Doc:Flexibility can be traded to Gaians on 2151. We may tell Spartans that we have to honour this agreement with Gaians. They are Spartans after all - people of honor, so they should understand it.
Also, just a remark - we could give Doc:Mobility to Gaians also so they get yet another tech, but apparently Spartans will not favor it. Do they have Doc:Mobility now?
So my vote is yes to Spartan proposal if they agree for releasing Doc: Flexibility to Gaians on 2151.
There is a significant detoriration of Gaian - Spartan relations. I think that as for us, getting Command Nexus by Spartans is kinda acceptable, but maybe Gaians were intending to build it. So now they do not like this idea of Spartans getting it. But if Hive is doing it, they should probably fail anyway. Thus I think it may be better if Spartans get Command Nexus. I think of something like that
The Spartan Federation,
The proposal of exchange the technologies as you proposed:
Social Psych
Doctrine Mobility
Doctrine Flexibility
for acquired:
Doctrine Loyality,
which will allow the Spartan Federation to build Command Nexus is acceptable with one change to the restrictions. Data Angels have currently an agreement pertaining to releasing of Doctrine Flexibility to Gaians. We would like to honour this agreement and hope that the Spartan Federation will understand it. Thus we would change the restriction pertaining to Doctrine: Flexibility, that it may be released to Gaian Union on 2151. The other restriction will stay unchanged - Doctrine Loyality will not be traded under any condition to any other third party until the Spartan Federation succesfully builds The Command Nexus Secret Project.
If Spartan Federation agree for the releasing of Doctrine: Flexibility to Gaians on MY 2151, then we accept the proposal.
We should post a reply as soon as possible, so Spartans will not have to delay that long.
The message above will unfortunatelly release some facts to Spartans, about Doc Mobility - Flexibility switch between us and Gaians. I hope it will not make any real problems.
It is even more complicated than I thought. So Gaians in fact admit that they acquired Doctrine Loyality from Hive. Now everything is clear - why there is disagreement between Gaians and Spartans. I guess Spartans do not know that Gaians have Doc. Loyality. Gaians probably want to build Command Nexus before Yang completes it. So now:
1. We probably have to keep our mouth shut or maybe tell Gaians that they should clear this situation with Spartans - who builds Command Nexus.
2. So should we inform Gaians about Spartan offer?
3. If Gaians clear situation with Spartans we probably loose this exchange: 3 for 1.
4. If we make it secret and let Spartans complete this offer we may make both Gaians and Spartans our enemy for kinda cheating them. They can feel it this way.
What should we do? Seems extremely difficult situation.
In this case I propose the following statement to Spartan Federation:
The Spartan Federation,
Our current research status allows for finalizing the agreement you propose also next turn. We do not expect to complete a new technology in the next turn. Thus we can discuss it further without need to agree upon it in the MY 2146 in order not to loose its benefits. There are important issues within our faction, which cannot be decided that fast.
Again a mail in my inbox, it's off the table appearantly. First text is my response for the turn delay request, Googlie's latest response and finally my response on that.
> I take a liberty here, but on my behalf I ask to request a 24 hour delay in
>
> the Spartans forwarding the turn. I cannot promise anything atm tho, but it
> is a very generous proposal.
>
> Geo
Well, a colleague pointed out a fatal flaw in my proposal - The Data Angels
do not yet possess Doc Mobility, so you cannot be researching Doc Flex (so
there would be no reason to send Doc Flex in the package. Or if we do, as a
gesture of friendship, we would want a longer embargo period before it found its
way to the Gaian Union. It would gall us exceedingly were the net result of
their intransigence be that they just had to wait a couple of years for the deal
that they refused us)
(It would be helpful if other leaders were as open as we are about what we
are researching - deals could be put together without all the guessing that goes
on - either that or we need to get our probe foils into the right oceans and
forget about the AI for a decade or so)
From Geo:
Whatever deal we would have agreed upon, the embargo wishes of the Junta would have been respected to the letter, if not to the spirit. It is simply too easy finding out which faction has ones own techs, so there is no way cheating on it.
Does this means that the Spartan proposal is off the table completely? Whether or not with help of the Spartans, the Data Angels WILL acquire all the mentioned technologies in the near future. It is simply a matter of trading with the right partner. This can be either the Spartans or the Gaians, or both.
In case the Junta still wishes to acquire Doc:Loy on a more 'conventional' way, it seems we are the only faction who is able to help you out then.
Regarding being open about research. The Junta has mentioned some technologies it possesses, certainly not all of them. However it has never mentioned (as far as I recall) which technology it was researching. We feel that the Angels have been open and willing enough to accommodate Spartan research plans on two occasions now, despite hasty proposals and appearant quick redrawals of those proposals for some reason or the other. It looks more like the Data Angels are considered a sort of last ditch attempt to achieve the Junta's means when negotiations with the High Council fail.
Regards,
IT GeoModder
He who knows others is wise.
He who knows himself is enlightened. -- Lao Tsu
Our agreement with Gaian's is Doc: Mob to us then we return Doc: Flex to them. If Gaian's as they appear to be ready to do pass Doc: Mob to us 2148, embargo year then we do not need Doc Mob from the Spartans. (Maybe the reason for the embargo)
When we get Doc:Flex subsequently we can give it to Gaians in 2151.
In short we would like a replacement tech for Doc: Mob from the Spartans. Ethical Calculus or SOHB.
When we receive the 3 techs we switch to Doc Loyalty.
If Gaians already have Doc: Loyalty at this moment then with their slight industrial edge the might beat the Spartans to it. Unless Sparta have crawlers ready and or a dummy SP(PTS) ready waiting.
If the Spartans learn from us that the Gaians have Doc: Loy already it is up to them to persuade the Gaians to let them, Sparta, build CN.
After (hopefully) we build VW next turn we can focus on PEG.
Also we need an agreement to receive some commando level rovers.
For us getting Doc: Flex 3 years earlier than planned is very useful for our belated probe attack on the AIs.
On the ISDG 2012 team at the heart of CiviLIZation
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