The Infotrader/Infiltrator Network - Diplomacy plug-in

[Mart]

the question stays:

A change of our research agreement with Gaians.... Do we want to do it?

any thoughts?

[Mart]

There is an answer on Gaian diplomatic channel from Illuminatis:

Angels, can you perhaps take some time for reply to Spartans?
First, I am a little bit surprised by Spartan generosity in your case - they refused to add anything in our case (and they wanted Doctrine: Loyalty too).

However, I see an opportunity here for all three factions, which would include some trickery on your part.
Would Angels be willing to accept Spartan offer but instead to Doctrine: Loyalty redirect to Ethical Calculus? We would provide you with Doctrine: Loyalty to cover this. Of course, due to your research treaty Spartans would eventually learn of this, but since they would get what they wanted there wouldn't be much harm done. You would just need to avoid to say you are redirecting towards Doctrine: Loyalty, and afterwards they found out that we provided you with Doctrine: Loyalty anyway. We would however still like to obtain Flexibility from you, as we agreed to beeline towards it and it is crucial for our war operations against Hive. My suggestion would also make possible for both of our factions to receive Ethical Calculus. I am going to suggest this to High Council too, but I await your response if you are interested in this. If you have any questions about this you can inform us to.
We are very grateful for information you have provided us with.

I am going to ask Illuminatus why Ethical Calculus is so crucial to them. It is an opportunity to get their agreement for switching to Adaptive Economics.

[ForesterSOF]

Ethical Calculus leads to Gene Splicing which reducesnutrient levels and Intelectual Intagrity which increases moral and CDF

[GeoModder]

We received Gene Splicing from Spartans, Gaians have it as well.

This proposal from Illu is not doable anymore I think.
The 3 for 1 tech proposal from the Spartans was more or less retracted, yes? Last time I checked at least. It looks now that they want to avoid us having Doc:Flex as long as possible.

I would say to not be part of some trickery (our good name is at stake at that), but in case we can receive Doc:Flex from the Spartans and Doc:Mob from the Gaians, switch to AdapEcon.

Otherwise stick to the deal and pray Morgans are not capable of researching AdapEcon now.

[Mart]

Gaians have Gene Splicing already. Thus they are probably interested in Intelectual Integrity. I think of the following message to Gaians and/or Illuminatus:

We would like to inquire you, if switching the research to Ethical Calculus is of great importance to you? There is also a new development of events pertaining to Morgan Industries faction. As our analysis indicate, Morganities acquired Progenitor Psych in MY 2145. We ask you do not share this information with Spartans now. We believe, Morganities attempt to build Planetary Energy Grid. Considering their rapid growth thanks to the Projects they already posses, the Planetary Energy Grid would significantly increase their power even further. Data Angels are presently in position to complete PEG before Morganities can do it, however, this would require acquiring Adaptive Economics as soon as possible, and not Ethical Calculus.
What is oppinion of Gaian Union on this matter?

If Data Angels enter an agreement with Spartans for providing them with Doctrine Loyality, will Gaian Union assure that Spartans will be allowed to complete Command Nexus? We believe, that Spartan Federation is interested in Doctrine Loyality at this moment mainly for this purpose. Thus if they achieve their goal, we believe no actual trickery would take place. It will all depend on the agreement Data Angels and Spartans will obtain.

[Mart]

Geo, yes. I think though, that we might get another agreement with Spartans. We give them Doctrine Loyality for their Doctrine Flexibility. We get Loyality from Gaians, then we forward them Flexibility. And just on a side think about it - why Gaians wouldn't trade with Spartans? Flexibility for Loyality?
---------------
I need a break. will be back in 2-3 hours....

[ForesterSOF]

S. wants to slow down our military progress and increase there speed to a CDF.

G. seems to want to go with the doc stuff and from there get CN and Perimiter Defence by Loyalty and from ther get armor 3 for defence and a marine detachment through researching Adaptive Doctrine.

What ever makes the least ripples I will go for.

I do get the impression that the G. are thinking more defensivly and will be more of a ally then the S.

I think the main thing is that the S. deal tht may be dead anyway is making us salavate.

[Hercules]

Meanwhile enquire of the Spartans: What is the current status of their 3 for 1 offer.

Why can't the Gaians say yes or no that they want to build the CN.

[ForesterSOF]

They do not want to lie so they say nothing.

[ForesterSOF]

Opinion of what to do since we all seeme to talk and not make decisions.

If the S. thing is is still good make it a one time trade deal and then return to the G. playground to play.

If the S. thing is dead continue playing with the G.

[Mart]

Just some thoughts:

To Gaian Union,

We currently see the situation in the following way:

1. Gaian Union can offer Doctrine Loyality to Spartan Federation for a technology of their choice. However, if Gaian Union does not wishes to do so for any reason, we may continuethe talks with Spartan Federation for possible releasing to them Doctrine Loyality. If this happens this way, definitaly we will gain from this trade, and how much Gaian Union will benefit additionally may be found out too.

2. We care about being fair in our trade. We suspect that Spartan Federation very strongly attempts to complete Command Nexus what they stated very openly to us, and if Gaian Union chooses to give Doctrine Loyality to Spartans through Data Angels, could we state to them, that neither Gaians or Angels would attempt to build Command Nexus? We might reveal to Spartans, that you posses Doctrine Loyality too in this case, or we might not reveal all details. This is pointless though, because as soon as Spartans get Doctrine Loyality they will know that Gaian Union has it too.

3. In case we acquire Doctrine Flexibility in other way than our own research, or it is no longer necessary for us to do so, we would like to inquire you, if switching the research to Ethical Calculus is of great importance to you? There is also a new development of events pertaining to Morgan Industries faction. As our analysis indicate, Morganities acquired Progenitor Psych in MY 2145. We ask you do not share this information with Spartans or Morganities now (if you have their commlink at this time). We believe, Morganities attempt to build Planetary Energy Grid. Considering their rapid growth thanks to the Projects they already posses, the Planetary Energy Grid would significantly increase their power even further. Data Angels are presently in position to complete PEG before Morganities can do it, however, this would require acquiring Adaptive Economics as soon as possible, and not Ethical Calculus.
What is oppinion of Gaian Union on this matter?

...

This letter reveal a lot. But I think it may help to finalize some trade. Also, states very clearly to Gaians, that if they want they can themselves trade Loyality with Spartans. However doing it through us, we may benefit them with an additional technology, as we gain 2 techs in it. If Spartans exchange Loyality with us (which we get from Gaians) for only one technology, it would be much better than proposed by them 3:1 exchange. Thus they gain a little too. A little, cause both Mobility and Socila Psych Gains posses already, so we will have to pay someone for it still, but Spartans will not give it to us for small price. I see gain in it for all. Unless Gaians choose to trade directly with Spartans. It maybe better that finding out before trade finalizes, that Gaians say:
"Guys, we can talk to Spartans ourselves, we do not need you any more. You got two tech for free and now you have to pay us a share"
Or they wouldn't do it? Maybe they already see it, and we will finally loose for not being open with them on that point. So there goes this message above. I think there is a chance Gaians will want us to trade with Spartans.

[Hercules]

I am happy with the openness. Except that if in the next response the Gaians don't declare what they intend regarding the CN, we then deal with the Spartans.

We have now asked them 4/5? times on this matter so they can not accuse us of betrayal.

[Hercules]

From 2147 turn I note that the Spartans have contact with the Morgan, ie in sharing tech offer, Morgan didn't require Spartan comm link but they did require Gaians. Also Morgan didn't require Yang's comm link.

I think we should ask Spartans why they didn't mention this important fact. I asumed they picked up their info via the same data checking as us. But if Spartans do trade share check with Morgan they will know which of the Spartan techs (tech leader?) Morgan has already.

[Hercules]

Also Doc : Mob didn't arrive pre accepted from the Gaians?

[Mart]

Originally posted by Hercules
Also Doc : Mob didn't arrive pre accepted from the Gaians?

Nope, it came not pre-accepted. Even better, ccause this way Gaians stick to requirement of Spartans for embargo lasting to 2148. They both seem to be certain on their point of view - which year is correct - '47 or '48. Anyway does not spoil anything so far.

So how about that message with 3 points in it? Green light for it to post to Gaians? Any changes? Important additions, corrections?