Turns 2141-2160

[johndmuller]

Of course it won't do any good, but I can't resist arguing the merits anyway.

First, it seems premature to be calling this an exploit - Attention all PBEM opponents, if you disband all your CmdCntrs you'll reverse all unfavorable odds - IMhO, it just demonstrates that the randomization mechanism is a bit sticky, and could use improvement; my guess is that it could just as easily have been the other way around (that we would be winning nearly all the time unless/until some randomization jolter shook it up) - the thing I find surprising is that selling the CmdCntr would have any connection with the randomization thing, my thinking would be that any of a variety of things, like moving or attacking with another unit could have done it, or something equally different too.

Hey, if we never posted the turn, it wasn't officially over with - period. How can there even be discussion about that anyway?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the reloads is that they occurred because Cap'n Maki used the turn from Cap'n Herc, she could just as easily have used her own and added Cap'n Herc's suggestion to sell the facs, do whatever else he suggested and make the last-gasp attack - and lived with whatever the results were (apparently 7 chances in 10 of success). The reloads themselves were just because Capn Herc, not expecting his turn to be used, had already openned the original turn a couple of times so as to be able to see what was happening and to analyze the position and make his recommendations - not expecting his turn to be used, he didn't bother to save it so it could be reopened without the cheat message. If Cap'n Herc had really wanted to cheat, do you think that he would have allowed reload messages to come up?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by johndmuller
Obviously Tass is full of himself (and no doubt other stuff as well) and needs to throw his weight around (in our direction, as it happens) - perhaps due to pique at not being recognized here as a trustworthy neutral party or maybe just due to his own psychic things. Googlie bowing out to him was in effect a dismissal of our case.

In case anyone here is too new to remember, or needs memory refreshing, (Comrade) Tass, IIRC, was originally a member of the Hive, wanted to switch to another faction after the game had started (or the other way around maybe or something else along those lines), but was not allowed to, IIRC (and/or else was the cause of our initial restart). Perhaps the other faction was the PUT or the Cycon - and perhaps I am misremembering all of it, but I don't think so. In any case, the event that turned him into a supposed neutral party was when he revealed that he had given the game file to a supposed outside party who hacked passwords into all the factions, which he (Tass) couldn't resist using (the upside is that he confessed to all this - the downside is that he did it in the first place). Talk about exploits! He may also have been involved in revealing/publicizing the premature-end-of-game bug letting anyone see the game summary revealing the current positions of all the factions. If that is not enough - you also get the free vegie chopper and ginzu knives - he was probably the king of spamming the game threads before during and after all that - a regular loose cannon, in other words - that was why I didn't feel it necessary to intervene on his behalf if Cap'n Herc didn't want to recognize his 'god' credentials (In any event, I'll have to admit that Tass has the god 'complex' at least).

Alright.....So let's sum it up:

-I'm doing this just to harm PEACE, because I'm sadistevil!
-I'm "psychic" (?)
-Googlie, after bowing to CyCon, is now bowing to me (Only serving to prove he's a bastard!)
-I was originally a Hive member, but I tried switching to PUT or CyCon but didn't.
-I hacked the save myself!
-I'm hypocritical - I mean, I obviously INTENTIONALLY tried doing it!
-I'm a spammer (this is obvious though)
-I'm a loose cannon
-I'm evil!

When the PEACE forums are opened for all to see, I'm sure that both my and others initial predictions about PEACE's behavior towards BOTH of the gods will be proven true.

[QUOTE} IMhO, it just demonstrates that the randomization mechanism is a bit sticky, and could use improvement; my guess is that it could just as easily have been the other way around (that we would be winning nearly all the time unless/until some randomization jolter shook it up) - the thing I find surprising is that selling the CmdCntr would have any connection with the randomization thing, my thinking would be that any of a variety of things, like moving or attacking with another unit could have done it, or something equally different too. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, you know, that kind of makes it...AN EXPLOIT! I have told you that the reloading is NOT THE BASIS OF MY RULING, the EXPLOIT is.

If Cap'n Herc had really wanted to cheat, do you think that he would have allowed reload messages to come up?

Others have already made this point, it was condidered.
I have heard enough and have made my ruling.

Either play the PEACE turn right NOW or else I will, but I'll play it slightly differently than you would.

[johndmuller]

Tass, I'm sorry I called you a Psychic Loose Cannon Hacker Wannabe Spamming God Complexificator (I didn't call you an evil hypocrit, however, that was your owm analysis ), but really . . .

Is threatening to play our turn in an unpleasant fashion very lofty or very neutral?

Obviously we're losing the game, mainly because we were duped by the Cycon (our assertion that their actions were well over the ethics line was already overruled by the neutral overseers and I'll refrain from rehashing that here, although it was apparently why the Googster removed himself), but losing the game we definitely are - why don't you throw us this bone - it seems like the *&%^%in' Cycon have already won 10 or 15 battles in a row, don't you think they can stand to lose one measley unit? - what do you expect us to think if you go out of your way fishing through stuff unrelated to the original charge you are supposedly investigating?

So we've got some flakey game behavior - the odds were stated as 3 to 4, apparently they are either zero chances in 50 or 7 chances in 10 when tested under two different variations. Obviously, neither of them is particularly like 3:4, but why is 0:50 considered neutrally fair?

I reviewed your prior behavior as a background to why we haven't been falling all over ourselves to invite you into our forum and/or have you as a supposedly impartial moderator. Until now, there has been no particular reason to doubt your ability to be fair and/or neutral, You have OTOH, demonstrated a high-handedness when it comes to executing your office in our forum in general (i.e. the threats to purge the membership without even attempting to coordinate with Cap'n Herc) and in this issue in particular (take the turn NOW or I'll take it for you and you won't like what I do).

Why don't you lighten up and do your job without taking yourself so seriously - and for my part I'll try to keep my psychic loose cannon tongue in my cheek where it belongs.

[Nubclear]

(i.e. the threats to purge the membership without even attempting to coordinate with Cap'n Herc)

I've done that with the Hive and CyCon as well.
Plus: Do you really think Hercules would even coordinate with me if I asked him to?
He won't even reply to any of my PMs at all.

(take the turn NOW or I'll take it for you and you won't like what I do).

Well....I get accused by you of a whole slew of things, not to mention that it is my ruling and I'm not going to change it and yet PEACE refuses to accept it.
It gets on my nerves, especially (seemingly) whenever any god does ANYTHING relating to PEACE, all of you begin jumping on them for whatever reason.
I didn't like PEACE because of the Googlie issues, and your outburst really didn't help things.

what do you expect us to think if you go out of your way fishing through stuff unrelated to the original charge you are supposedly investigating?

Er, I didn't go out of my way However if, in my investigations, I find something else meriting investigating....I'll investigate it.

Why don't you lighten up and do your job without taking yourself so seriously

Because I am your god Die!!

[johndmuller]

Googs conceded a certain appearance of impropriety may have existed, which is all we ever really accused him of. Both he and I (and others) confessed to a (large) degree of overreaction and excessive and regrettable unpleasantries. As far as I know, Googlie and I have put that behind us, although apparently you have not, even though you weren't even involved in the first place and probably don't know everything that went on (as the Googster, and possibly others, edited out many posts from that period).

Throughout that episode, I never thought that Googlie was being dishonorable or had any but the best intentions. There might have been a few things better to have been done differently, or not at all, but no way was he intentionally doing anything improper. OTOH, I strongly disagreed with his ruling at the time (and I still think it was not in the best interests of the game), but not with his right to make it.

Nothing personal, but my comfort level with you is not on the same level as with Googs, and comments like "Because I am your god Die!! " do not help.

As to the turn, presumably you know that Cap'n Maki is the turn player - anything I might be saying has no bearing on when the turn gets played (except that we are spamming the supposed internal turn thread and she'll have to read through all of it - and probably get pissed off at you and/or me (for egging you on)) before she can think about playing the turn again).

[Nubclear]

Well, the turn needs to be played soon. People are getting impatient. Remember, two more turns need to be played after yours before the game can even move on.
You have 3 1/2 hours.

[Makahlua]

Here, catch!

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Makahlua/PEACEtoDrones2155-2.SAV

There will be a reload waring because I restaered from the beginning.

[foolish_icarus]

with ten minutes to spare...nice

Of course, it would be better were not the circumstances that created this smooth timing so unfortunate

woe, the pirate way of life is ending; you'll be sorry when all you have is the cyborgs to talk to

[FlameFlash]

This is rediculous.

Maki, do you have a pre-end-turn save? I'd like to actually see this Tass inspired garabage of a turn.

[Hercules]

Yeah, you know, that kind of makes it...AN EXPLOIT! I have told you that the reloading is NOT
THE BASIS OF MY RULING, the EXPLOIT is.

That's interesting, because Googlie gave the impression that the remaining issue was the matter of the reload, not the battle circumstances.

The 'exploit' as you call it (and as was explained), wasn't an optional variation for us to play around with. We needed to sell the Command centre to complete the CP. I didn't know the timing of its sale was the crucial factor in the battle outcome, otherwise I would have underlined that fact. None of us knew until Googlie obtained the 7/10 result.

So it is hard to 'exploit' something you are unaware is an 'exploit' to begin with.

[Makahlua]

FF - er, sorry, I was in a hurry and under pressure I tihnk we'll be ok though, the CP is ready to roll out of Atlantis next turn, but we'll be losing LA *sigh*

[Hercules]

Sorry fellow Cap'ns for all this sh*t I seem to have brought on the Peace Faction. The game was meant to be more enjoyable than this.

[johndmuller]

Cap'n Calico, by no means do you get to have all the responsibility - I demand my fair share!

In truth, however, we have to yield the blame to the ^%%in' Borg and their unethical behavior, and to the several unenlightened rulings by the powers that be.

Meanwhile, the Cuspidore's Treasure remains secure at Hidden Islet, where Baretta is raising a flock of avenging angels to deliver that sh#t where it belongs!

[FlameFlash]

/me sighs.



You're right though, Herc. I'd even be having fun if we were losing and deserved it, but backstabbing like this is just crazy.

What we need is somebody like Keygen or somebody else from another section of 'poly to be the higher up. A former player should never have been party to it, likewise something like what happened with the CyCon and us should have been voted upon since it heavily impacted everyone and not just the CyCon and us.

There are no rules established in this game for a request for a true neutral party to be established for moderator though, is there?

[Nubclear]

Ya know what bothers me?
Every time I make a ruling against a faction, I'm accused of being in the pocket of another faction. It's almost like I can't be a neutral god unless I always rule in favor of every faction and against no one.