FIRAXIS: A list of EASY fixes for the next C3C patch

[Gyromancer]

I think they meant Republic to be a government that transitions from the ancient Athenian democracy in the early part of the game to the "speak softly and carry a big stick" imperialist democracy:

6 level 1 cities( ancient age benchmark): 6 units free, 12 units cost 12 upkeep.

6 level 2 cities(middle ages benchmark): 18 units free, 36 units cost 36 upkeep.

6 level 3 cities(industrial age benchmark): 24 units free, 48 units cost 48 upkeep.

The problem here is that Republic is now so much better overall than monarchy/feudalism in the middle ages that I can't imagine anyone but the most die-hard warmonger not choosing it. I think that the free unit progression should be more like 1-2-4 or 1-1-4 instead of the 1-3-4 currently in the game.

That would preserve the peacenik nature of republic through the ancient age while still allowing for the militaristic "manifest destiny" model in the Industrial age. (And keep republic from completely dominating monarchy/feudalism in the middle ages...)

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by dexters
Alva, the problem is, until Galleons and Frigates hit, the AI simply do not have the transport capacity to mount a substantial naval invasion. It just doesn't build enough galleys, or caravels.

...

I suspect this is because the new AI code applies mostly to the case where you have a transport + escort. Before Frigates, all ships double as a transport and a warship. Perhaps this can be fixed in the next patch, and if it is fixed, then your idea will work, I think.

Add bombardment capability to galleys and caravels (2.1.1), along with Naval Power AI flag. A simple fix that enlivens early naval warfare tremendously.

Bombardment capability can simulate coastal raiding parties, if you want to rationalize it (necessary for those BARBARIAN galleys)!

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Gyromancer
The problem here is that Republic is now so much better overall than monarchy/feudalism in the middle ages that I can't imagine anyone but the most die-hard warmonger not choosing it. I think that the free unit progression should be more like 1-2-4 or 1-1-4 instead of the 1-3-4 currently in the game.

I think the case remains to be made as to why republic should get any free units.

[asleepathewheel]

shouldn't zeus require horses and ivory, as it produces ancient cavalry? These guys aren't parading around on 'phants are they?

[lockstep]

Re: FIRAXIS: A list of EASY fixes for the next C3C patch

Originally posted by alexman [*]Restore PTW AI behavior

I'd rather say 'Restore PTW barbarian AI behavior.' Many users seem to be quite happy with Conquests' other AI tweaks, e.g. for naval warfare.

Originally posted by Gyromancer
I think that the free unit progression should be more like 1-2-4 or 1-1-4 instead of the 1-3-4 currently in the game.

I was thinking about 1-2-3 as an 'easy' fix, but this obviously needs to be tested further. And while this should weaken Republic vs. Monarchy (currently my main concern), something also needs to be done to strengthen Democracy vs. Republic.

[Risa]

I think there is another way to avoid Maya's worker-hunting: Just makes JT enslaves units as warriors rather than workers. What about that?

As for giving all civs enslavement ability, what about a new optional tech called "Slavery" with preq.s as Writing and Warrior Code, and a new cheap small wonder called "Slave Market" or what ever, which is available at Slavery and is obsoleted at Industrialization, and gives any land troop the ability of enslaving units as warriors (but at lower chance)?
I make it a small wonder so that it can use existing mechanics about obsoleting, and give players the choice of using it or not. I choose Industrialization as its outdating tech because it's when Universal Suffrage is available, though I would prefer it be Democracy if it wasn't a optional tech. And making it enslave as warriors is for avoiding worker-hunting problem.

Any comment? And is the second one too hard to make into a mod?

[alexman]

I like your first suggestion Risa.

The second seems like a big change, but it's interesting, even if it requires a new Wonder ability which is currently not present.

[Dominae]

I think Enslave should make Workers. It makes more sense that way. Just remove the Barb-farming option and the whole issue goes away.


Dominae

[Stuie]

to Risa's ideas. Very nice.

I really like the idea of enslavement becoming obsolete. I know it's not an "easy" fix, but if they have room for any enhancements....

[Inverse Icarus]

enslavement hasn't become obsolete in over 6000 years of recorded history... why should it in the game?

[asleepathewheel]

I think the worker slaves are best. I don't think in the epic game you should be getting offensive units from barbs. I can just imagine-stockpiling gold, and capturing 10 warriors or so from a camp-boom-instant sword rush.

[alexman]

They will be regular Warriors though, right? Unless you use them against their own old barb camp to get promoted!

In any case, you would still need 600 gold to upgrade those 10 Warriors...

[Risa]

IIRC, historywise slaves are both peace-time workers and war-time cannon-fodders. It makes sense enslaving as warriors, IMO.
Bisides, even cannon-fodders sometimes need to get better equipment, or even be assorbed into regular army. That is represented by spending money upgrading slave warriors to more up-to-date units.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by alexman
They will be regular Warriors though, right? Unless you use them against their own old barb camp to get promoted!

In any case, you would still need 600 gold to upgrade those 10 Warriors...

I know I have 600 spare gold just laying around in the ancient age......

ok, so that wasn't a good idea on my part....

[Dominae]

Mayan Javelin Thrower hits Babylonian Warrior in the chest.

"Ouch", says Babylonian Warrior, "that hurt".

"Now you are part of the Maya, weakling", states the Jav. Thrower, in the typical monotone of uncivilized nations.

"Well, I guess I had better pick up a sword and fight for you guys then? Is 'Long live the Maya, Death to Babylonians and other heathens!' an acceptable battle cry?", asks Babylonian Warrior.

"Yes. Now go and die."