FIRAXIS: A list of EASY fixes for the next C3C patch

[alexman]

Originally posted by Catt
Make AIs value Ivory more than other luxuries until the Statue of Zeus is completed

I believe this is already the case. In fact, (as Nor Me often likes to point out ), the fact that you need iron to build the Iron Works is responsible for a big chunk of the AI trade value of iron.

[dexters]

Well, you also need iron to build RRs and a ton of neat little units in the game.

With the new resource distribution, I get to see a lot more of the underlying mechanisms behind AI resource valuation. I've noticed for example coal and saltpeter tend to be devalued over time.

[Inverse Icarus]

... iron works requires it in the city radius.

[Catt]

Originally posted by alexman


I believe this is already the case. In fact, (as Nor Me often likes to point out ), the fact that you need iron to build the Iron Works is responsible for a big chunk of the AI trade value of iron.

In my current game, I could acquire either ivory or gems from the Japanese for the same price (lux and gpt, so I know I am not inadvertantly vastly overpaying for even a more expensive ivory with a valuable tech) -- and that has cost Tokugawa his rightful Statue of Zeus

And BTW, I always thought Nor Me's relaible point was that the Iron Works actually contributed to the high cost / high AI interest in Iron Working, rather than iron. Edit: Did a search, and you're right that Nor Me's comment is about the value of iron -- which just goes to show that you're not repeating it enough if I cant remeber it properly, Nor Me End Edit

dexters - I can see allowing "bribed futile wars" where the AI gets something out of an MA, but I'd be interested in an even more limited fix to address truly futile (w/o bribe) declarations. In my game, because every civ (except 2 civs) is isolated on its own landmass, I have built a sum total of 2 warriors (and now the Statue of Zeus) and focused on science and commerce, and my extreme military weakness versus all the other AIs has induced war declarations when I do not give in to AI tech extortion attempts; the thing is that the AIs making the declarations were completely isolated and could not have been induced by an alliance -- they simply compared relative power and declared. Not only is it a real help with happiness in the ancient age, but it will also provide additional long-term benefits since most civs will become "traditional enemies" and therefore ensure future happiness boosts even when I declare war later in the game.

Catt

[dexters]

I've noticed the AI are more opportunistic. I've played a couple of continents/pangea games where the AI civ will unilateraly declare war on another Civ already in a war to grab land. Like what you'd expect a human to do.

This actually works.

BTW, mind explaining to me how traditional enemy status is caculated by the AI? I'm not too sure.

[Catt]

Originally posted by dexters
BTW, mind explaining to me how traditional enemy status is caculated by the AI? I'm not too sure.

Don't know exactly, but I know that if a civ attains "traditional enemy" status, your war happiness is increased at the start of new wars in the future. As far as I know, aving one prior war with a civ is enough to grant "traditional enemy" status. I have no idea whether the AI takes this into account wrt war decisions.

Catt

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by alexman

I believe this is already the case. In fact, (as Nor Me often likes to point out ), the fact that you need iron to build the Iron Works is responsible for a big chunk of the AI trade value of iron.

Huh? Trading for Iron will do nothing for making the IronWorks small wonder. You must have coal and Iron in the same city, don't you?

[Kuciwalker]

Yes, but the AI doesn't know that

[statusperfect]

By that time you will need the iron for railroads anyways.. so it isn't that much of a bug

[Catt]

Nor Me's famous point speaks to the quirky, and counter-intuitive, AI valuation methods -- the AI increases the trade value of iron, even in the ancient age, because iron enables the Iron Works. The ridiculous aspect of that particular valuation method is of course that traded iron does abslutely nothing related to the iron works, since it can be built only with iron and coal within the same city radius.

Catt

[alexman]

Alfonso, your list of Spanish cities and leaders is very welcome, but it's probably best if we leave historical accuracy suggestions out of this list.

As for the Conquistador, I agree that it might need a boost, but 50-shields and 3-defense is way too much, if you ask me, especially in C3C with Astronomy the required tech. However, I think Firaxis had a chance to rebelance the UUs in this expansion and they decided that the Conquistador is fine as it is. I don't think we can change their minds here, after all the beta testing they have done.

[alva]

I actually would like to see some kind of early (beginning of middleage?) berzerk/marine. Wouldn't need to be much of a unit, just be able to attack a city from a boat.
This would benefit the AI too IMO as he will defend every city anyway, while humans only defend (read occupy) the tiles next to it(to prevent the AI from landing next to your city and buy time to get organised), and you would have to leave some units behind in what otherwise would be 'safe country' instead of using them to either defend fringe cities or in some kind of attack..
That would change if there was an actual threat of the AI being able to take a city (directly), you would otherwise consider to be safe.
Not to mention that it would be a great addition for MP/Pbem.

mental note: need to look up a couple of synonyms for 'would'

[dexters]

Alva, the problem is, until Galleons and Frigates hit, the AI simply do not have the transport capacity to mount a substantial naval invasion. It just doesn't build enough galleys, or caravels.

Actually Alexman, if you read tihs, can you please add this as a request? To fix early game AI shipbuilding? They need to build more ships, even on continents/pangea maps. The idea with these largely landbased maps is to have the capacity to surprise an oppenent from the sea, and this is what I think Alva is speaking to partially.

I suspect this is because the new AI code applies mostly to the case where you have a transport + escort. Before Frigates, all ships double as a transport and a warship. Perhaps this can be fixed in the next patch, and if it is fixed, then your idea will work, I think.

[alva]

Alva, the problem is, until Galleons and Frigates hit, the AI simply do not have the transport capacity to mount a substantial naval invasion. It just doesn't build enough galleys, or caravels.

No problem as that is not the issue, the AI will drop of some lone warrior at the back of your empire anyway. However, since you can't see what it is carrying, it could be a unit that can go straight into one of your undefended core cities.

[dexters]

I see what you're saying. So amphib assault unit for all civs?
Would this diminish the UU?