Rise of the Third Riech

[Patine]

I think that would be good. I've decided in the end to use impassable neutral terrain, but only for Portugal, Switzerland, Ireland, Sweden, Saudi Arabia, Persia, and Afghanistan. Countries taken by the Axis powers before aggression with the Allies (the Rhineland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Danzig, Albania, and Abyssinia) will be barbarians, as will Spanish Republicans and (much later) Tito's Yugoslavian partisans. Minor allies (Poland, the Low Countries, Norway, Denmark, Greece, and Yugoslavia) will be controlled by the British. Question is, who should start with the minor Axis (Finland, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria) and the late-joining Allies (Turkey and certain Latin American countries starting on the map)?

[jim panse]

@ Martin: Thank you for that additional information, I edited the map again a little bit

@ Patine: I started thinking about these issues when I started work on my own - temporary - abandoned World War Two scenario "Axis & Allies ToT". I came to the conclusion that, on a map featuring only Europe & the Middle East the best starting date would be (10) May 1940, with the Western Campaign.

My Concept: (maybe it can help you too)

* Starting Date: 10 May 1940, start of the western war;

* Neutral Nations during the whole war are to be blanked out, no access possible: this means Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland;

* Certain trigger events make the Minor Axis civ take control of Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Finland; (the best would be non-moveable units in those cities); the idea is to make those countries part of the neutral civ first;

* Certain trigger events make Yugoslavia and Greece side with the still-fighting Britain;

Strike Order:

(1) Third Reich (Romans) - Greater Germany, Slovakia, occupied Poland, Denmark, Norway;

(2) Neutral Nations (Babylonians) - Hungary*, Romania*, Bulgaria*, Finland*, Yugoslavia*, Greece*; Turkey*, Saudi-Arabia*;

(3) Vichy France (French) - Vichy France, French Northern Africa, Syria, Lebanon;

(4) Italy (Spanish) - Italy, occupied Albania, Lybia & the Cyrenaika, Abessinia;

(5) Soviet Union (Americans) - USSR, occupied Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania;

(6) United Kingdom (English) - British Empire, Free French*, United States of America*;

(7) Western Allies (Indians) - France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg; Greece*, Yugoslavia*; Persia*; Turkey*, Saudi-Arabia*;

(8) Minor Axis/Pro-German Nations (Barbarians) - Hungary*, Romania*, Bulgaria*, Finland*

Sidenotes:

As this is the actual concept for my own WW2 scenario I am offering it as basis for a debate and/or some kind of inspiration for your personal use, Patrick. Since I intend to finish this scenario one fine day I hope my own ideas will be repected - until I either finish it or abandon it permanently.

I do think you could go for the starting date of early 1938, before the annexation of Austria with basically the same civs. As the game evolves, you could make the respective civs simply "take-over" the neutral cities.

This worth some consideration?

[jim panse]

Forgot to attach the map

[Patine]

I think ultimately I'll go with this set of players:
-1-USSR
-2-Italy
-3-Germany (including Finland, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria)
-4-Spain (Nationalists)
-5-USA (including Liberia and Latin American nations)
-6-British Empire (including Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low Countries, Yugoslavia, and Greece)
-7)France
-Barbarians-Spanish Republicans, the Rhineland, Danzig, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Albania, Abyssinia, and initially Turkey
-Nations covered by impassable terrain-Portugal, Andorra, Switzerland, Ireland, Sweden, Saudi Arabia, Persia, and Afghanistan.
It would begin in February 1933, and a house rule would forbid Germany (who's meant to be the active player) from building of anything but freight, an immobile garrison, or city improvements in Minor Axis countries until early '41. Turkey would join the British via events to take their cities in early '45, and their borders would be well protected by immobile defensive units that would be destroyed by terrain changes (to the same terrain) that turn.

[Patine]

Oh, one note I neglected; Tito's Yugoslavian partisans, appearing in '45, would also be barbarians, but I agree with you in making the Free French British.

[Patine]

Actually, I just had an inspiration for a better idea to handle the situation. I had planned in the future to do an 'Origins of World War II' scen meant for multiplayer or PBEM play running from Feb '33 to Apr '40 that explored the full diplomatic and political scope of the era (I got some cool flags for that idea from Chris on the 'Flag Requests Thread'). I think I may well separate the situation (in theory, anyhow) into that idea and the one featured in this thread, which will start in May '40. It will thus feature the following civ's:
-1-USSR
-2-Italy
-3-Germany (including Finland, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria)
-4-Spain
-5-USA (including Liberia and Latin American nations)
-6-British Empire (including Norway, the Low Countries, Yugoslavia, and Greece, as well as the Free French)
-7)France
-Barbarians-Tito's partisans and initially Turkey.
-Nations covered by impassable terrain-Portugal, Andorra, Switzerland, Ireland, Sweden, Saudi Arabia, Persia, and Afghanistan.
Same idea applies for incorporating Turkey into the British player.

[Patine]

I've currently got most of the units I need. The ones I still need, as it stands, are as follows:
-He-111
-1 more good German aircraft (I've got the Me-109, Fw-190, Ju-87, Ju-88, and Me-262; I need a good suggestion)
-Soviet Cossack Cavalry
-Turkish Border Guard (for above idea)
-Tito's Yugoslavian Partisan
I'll also need someone to 'tidy-up' the units.bmp.
@fairline: Not meaning to rush, but I do also still need that Devastator and Helldiver for 'Empire of the Rising Sun,' which I plan to finish before doing anything but gathering ideas and graphics for this scen.
Anyone who can help me will be honored as my hero. Thanks in advance!

[Patine]

Sorry to be a pest, but there's two needed units I've forgotten (I don't know how). They are:
-B-17
-Vicker Wellington
I know I ask a lot, but I just want top quality scenarios to share, and have no graphics making skills. If someone could bear with me and make me (or dig up) these units for ToT, I'd be much obliged. Thanks again!

[Eivind IV]

All these units are to find in the cdg graphical threads, fairline's very own forum over there, and they can also bee found in almost all ww2 scenarios.

[Broken_Erika]

the turkish border guard may be a wee bit tricky to find,
oh and eivind, you got rid of your war president avatar

[fairline]

Originally posted by Patine
Sorry to be a pest, but there's two needed units I've forgotten (I don't know how). They are:
-B-17
-Vicker Wellington
I know I ask a lot, but I just want top quality scenarios to share, and have no graphics making skills. If someone could bear with me and make me (or dig up) these units for ToT, I'd be much obliged. Thanks again!

Patine, there was a B-17 on the set of units I posted on only the previous page, at your request

[fairline]

Oh, and having the Turks and Spanish is surely a bad idea: firstly their units will attack everybody and secondly I can't conceive of a set of circumstances under which either the Allies or, even less so, the Axis would invade Spain.

[Broken_Erika]

Originally posted by fairline
Oh, and having the Turks and Spanish is surely a bad idea: firstly their units will attack everybody and secondly I can't conceive of a set of circumstances under which either the Allies or, even less so, the Axis would invade Spain.

yea, but the spanish civil war,
i don't know about the turks, perhaps like the original ww2 scenario that came with civ2
i've played as both the spanish and the turks in that scen, both time i died horribly,

[Patine]

@fairline: Is there a B-17 on that file? Which one is it? And, you're probably right about the Spanish and Turks, ultimately. I should just make them impassable neutrals. Who, then should be the seventh player? Any suggestions?

[fairline]

Originally posted by Broken_Erika

yea, but the spanish civil war,
i don't know about the turks, perhaps like the original ww2 scenario that came with civ2
i've played as both the spanish and the turks in that scen, both time i died horribly,

If Spain is a barb nation then every single AI civ will attack it until it's cities are taken over. Hardly appropriate for a WW2 scenario, don't you think?

@Patine: Are the units that bad?

It's the very last unit - the silver four-engined bomber.