Rise of the Third Riech

[Sarsstock]

Well Patrick it seems you will have no shortage of excellent units from which to choose from. Do you have a rough idea of just what units you'd want to include in this scenario?

[Patine]

I plan to use mostly the ones I listed above, plus some I'd already attached to the units file above. I think I'll have two units files; one, for '33 to '40, with things like Polish infantry and cavalry, Danish and Norweigan infantry, Rhineland - Austrian - Czech - Danzig garrison (and very weak unit acting only to hold cities Germany bloodlessly annexed), and the PZL P-7. These will be replaced by late war tanks and planes in the second one, under the theory they'll be eliminated from play by then. Actually, if you could get some of the infantry (Polish, Romanian, Low Countries, Italian, Danish, and Norweigan), cavalry (Polish and Soviet Cossack), and that 'anschlussed' garrison units I need (you're a good infantry and cavalry man, aren't you Chris?), I'd be much obliged. Just use the 'Demilitarized' flag you made for me for that annexed garrison's shield. Thank!

[jim panse]

Sorry about threadjacking a bit: Gareth

Now back to the topic: I was playing around with the graphics set offered by Civ II and I wanted to include borders to a map of Europe (WW2). Basically I implemented the system Kobayashi used in his fabolous Rape of Nations scenario: Rivers as national borders.

I know, I know, this is only some minor feature - but I think it is fine to show how much lands you grabbed as time passes on.

Anyway, the way I did it was making the rivers the border, using a one-tile terrain slot as forest graphic (I did that because from that distance it sure is about equal if you have forest graphics hanging together or not ...) and used the forest slot to add river terrains. Using this "technique" you can have both, borders and rivers.

Attached is a screenie what it looks like - in the map editor

[Eivind IV]

I always loved that feuture in RON. Hope to see it here as well.

[jim panse]

Oh, btw, ToT allows you to create impassable terrain - hence the blanked out coutries Sweden and Switzerland; this could save up a civ

[Patine]

Steph, could you please make me such a map, with forest/river borders and, say, glacier neutrals (Switzerland, Sweden, Ireland, Portugal, Persia, and Afghanistan). I'd be most grateful.

[jim panse]

What map? Only Europe? Give me that map and I will do what you asked me to do. I only suggest to take a rather big map for otherwise those borders would become too irritating I think.

[Patine]

Here's what I'm using; it's based on the one you previously gave me, clipped a bit in the west.

[jim panse]

It has been a little difficult to place all them borders - more or less - properly but here you go, Patrick!

Attached is a zipped file with not only the map but also with the two terrain files - feel free to alter them but leave the following terrains in their respective slots:

* The forest terrain is now the river graphics;

* The borders are represented by the river graphics - theese parts of the terrain2 file and the river mouth section should be taboo;

* The Tundra terrain has been used to add some more different graphics to the frozen regions in the north;

Feel free to alter everything - but always mind the purpose of these three terrain slots!

Oh, something else: The one-slot terrain1-file forest graphic is in the Vanilla Civ2 Glacier slot

One last sidenote: I tried my best to avoid the river mouths to make the border looks crappy - and failed in the following locations due to the (relatively) small scale of the land mass:

* Northern Ireland: place some in-game graphic there to hide it;

* Memel river mouth/East Prussia: the placed city of Königsberg should do the trick here;

* The border between Estonia & Lithuania is also a bit odd-looking, just place some in-game graphic there to hide it;

* The Libanese borders look also a bit crappy due to the shape of the coast, I hope you´ll forgive me;

* Also the Jordanian border looks a little odd I have to confess ...

* I did not include all coutries between Senegal & Liberia - too little space but I assume that border there will do too;

Known flaws:

* Albania is rather small due to the dashed shape of the land mass in southern Dalmatia though I assume that´ll do;

* The borders of the Benelux countries are done the best way the map itself allowed;

* Austria looks awful but there was simply not enough place. And that coming from an Austrian

* Romania & Bulgaria have some kind of crappy borders too - I hope you forgive me

* Andorra, Kuwait, Luxembourg, Belize, etc. are in - sorry, no Vatican State

Well, that´s it I guess. Tell me if you want/need anything else altered!

Cheers, Stephan

[Arthedain]

@Arthedain: I agree. I'd certainly fit in the Spanish Civil War in that case.

@Erika: Barbarian Republicans might be a good idea, actually.

Actually, I've had this idea on my own for a while. I've even begun working on it (a long time ago) and I also used the barbarians as Republicans. Either way I think you should go for this idea, I've stopped working on my own way back. I'm looking forward to this one, and I reall like the innovative idea with the nation borders. We really need to thank Kobayashi for that one.

[Arthedain]

I don't want to be too picky but here are my suggestions:

* Lebanon should belong to the Syrian mandate.
* square 71,45 (Denmark) should be grassland
* Bulgaria could be a little more to the west (the border could go through 81,81 -> 81,82 -> 81,83 -> 82.84 -> 81,85)
* Give Austria more room, the border could be 75,67 -> 75,68 -> 75,56 or maybe even end up on 74,69 (though that would look a bit odd).
* The French colonies don't need borders between them. Or what do you think? Same with the Brittish btw.

[jim panse]

Well, these are too good points to be neglected, Martin

Attached is a slightly updated version of the map I posted above, the same rules as to the map I attached yesterday apply here too.

Edits/Changes:

* Bulgaria is now a bit larger

* Austria resembles now more the shape of the real country, therefore the Italian-Yugoslav-Austrian border zone had to be slightly edited;

* Changed the borders between some colonies in Africa - save those French colonies which were seperated from French West-Africa before, Mauretania (1903), Morocco (1912), of course Algeria and Tunesia; now also the British and Portuguese possessions along the coast in the West are featured - as well as Liberia;

* The border beteen the Anglo-Egypt Sudan and Egypt still exist - Egypt was de iure "independent" since 1922;

* Edited the coast in the Med a bit and got rid of the border between Syria and Lebanon;

I think it is indeed looking better now

[Patine]

That's great work, Steph! It should be a cool map! Though the terrain1.bmp you gave me was from 'Bitterfrost,' the terrain2.bmp is what I needed. I've considered impassable neutral terrain; it has a good and bad point. Good: it frees up a civ slot. Bad: it implies that Hitler in the player's hands is obliged to show the same honor (or expediency with resources, perhaps) with regard to these nations as he did historically, which may not be desirable. I haven't made a firm decision. Any thoughts?

[jim panse]

Well, I´d go for the following civs (regarding starting date 1933, of course):

Germany
USSR
France
United Kingdom
(United States of America)
Italy
Spain

The 1936 variant would see these civs feature the same civs I guess, starting with the Uprising in Spain I guess.

Any comments?

[Arthedain]

Map looks much better now, and I agree totally on the civs.

But one border is still wrong, the Finish-Russian border. The border extended to the lake of Ladoga. Here are the borders before the Winterwar: http://www.algonet.se/~bog/vinterkriget/ANFALL.JPG