Rise of the Third Riech

[Patine]

I'll have to experiment further with this technique. As for winter and summer terrain switches, I'll see what I can do in that regard as well. Dividing up the Pro-German states may allow for better control of certain situations, as well. I also have to decide what unit to get rid of to create a Maginot Line Fortress unit for France. Any suggestions?

[Eivind IV]

Henrik's scenario idea surely sounds interesting. I hope you get to complete it sometime. I'm on the uni myself so I understand the time restrictions. But with some priorities and planning I for one know I can fit in some civ'ing once in a while

I don't understand what you don't understand about the placing of units, patine, but here I'll try to explain what I think you mean:

If having Poland as a British city with French units inside, or even more practical, as a barb city (as barb cities seldom produces anything) with French units inside, it would open for a practical sollution to your scenario.

If you go with the suggestions voiced about having a premade Vichy France locked behind impassable terrain from the bat, the French can not use this city for anything, if the French AI operates as I think it will (meaning that they stay within the city). So, when German units try to attack the units inside the apparent barbarian (neutral) city, you will get a question as if you where to attack the French civ and effectively drag the allies altogether into war.

And for placing French units inside the barbarian Polish cities, you simply go to the cheat menu, place unit, and select a foreign french unit to be placed inside the city.

As for units there are plenty of units I would remove. I understand you want to colour the scenario with nation specific units, namely infantries, but in my eyes it seems like a waste of units. I would much rather see more airplanes, different tank models, infantry models, naval unit types etc, for the playing civs.

Also having generic units would free up even more units. Maybe not allover as in Henrik's idea, but for certain prewar units at least.

If you would like more detailed tips I would love to take a look at your files and you save to help out.

[Patine]

Okay, here's my three rules.txt files (the first for the start to declaration of war, the second from that till Dec '41, and the third from Jan '42 till the end) and my .sav file. Any advice would be helpful.

[Patine]

Currently, I have a dilemna, that being in regards to which civ's to include. I have two different sets I'm toying with, suggested by two different people, and I'd like some advice on which to use. They are:
A)Suggested by Chris
-Germany
-Italy
-Britain
-France
-USSR
-Pro-Allied
-Pro-Axis
-Demilitarized and Republican Spanish (barbs)
B)Suggested by Eivind
-Germany
-Italy
-Finland
-Balkan Axis
-Western Allies
-Vichy France
-USSR
-Neutrals (barbs)
Any advice on which to choose (or a better set, if any) would be greatly appreciated.

[jim panse]

I once planned to do an update to my own WW2 scenario, Axis & Allies, using the following system: I suggest you make any possible target - read "minor powers" - civs barbarians - so both sides could possibly attack them (which actually happened in case of Norway, later in '41 the British sent military aid to Greece for instance). So the player can decide whether to attack or not attack these cities - and events would provide the bonuses someone might get by attacking certain cities (e.g. Germany could get some event-generated money by taking control of Narvik & the Swedish raw ore exports) ...

[AGRICOLA]

I think that you should look at the question from the viewpoint of being able to control the scen. Allies can completely screw up game play when their units are free to wander wherever they please. Several scens have in the last year had to have allies removed or switched to immobile allied units.

jim panse's suggested approach keeps it simple and makes much sense.

@Sarsstock
It might be one way to do it. It would let you control the number and type(s) of guerrilla units and make it more difficult to capture a city. Alternately, it could be used to model a heavily boobytrapped urban environment where it takes a lot of manpower to remove the traps. Think of Cherbourg and Antwerp where Allies captured the cities but were unable to use the port facilities for a long time.

[Patine]

Ultimately, I'm seriously considering going back to my original idea for civ's, which is as follows:
-Germany
-Pro-German States (Italy, Finland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and the Nationalist Spanish)
-British Empire/Minor Allies (the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxumbourg, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Iceland)
-United States (including Cuba and Liberia)
-France
-USSR
-Contested States (Poland, the Baltic States, Norway, Denmark, Albania, Ethiopia, and the Republican Spanish)
-Demilitarized Zones (barbs) (Austria, the Czech part of Czechoslovakia, the Rhineland, and Danzig)
-Neutrals (barbs) (Mexico, Guatamala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, the UAE, and Oman)
-Tito's Partisans (barbs)
-Inviolable Neutrals (covered in impassable terrain) (Haiti, Portugal, Andorra, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Persia, and Afghanistan)
And yes, I've weighed all of the arguments against this setup, but, ultimately, I have a definite plan to control this setup, which I lack for the other options. The Americans being their own civ means, if the Germans do an exceptional job, they can actually invade the Eastern Seaboard. A separate Contested Powers goes with my plan to KILLCIV what remains of them (ideally nothing or little) in Dec '41 so their unit slots can be used for other things in the altered unit set starting in Jan '42 (which I couldn't do if they were under the Brits). I think Vichy France will have to go, and Germany will have to conquer the whole country, as Chris suggested, which should be preferrable to players anyway. The German allies as one player are easier to contain and prevent wandering. And even though Persia was invaded by the Brits and Soviets, it had little relevance to Germany.

[Patine]

I've been away, as my computer's been in the shop. I've considered this scen, but have been unable to physically work on it. I've considered various combinations of civ's either I or others on this forum have come up with, and all have gaping flaws in terms of what I want to accomplish. I am looking for a paradigm assortment that will be optimal; any further suggestions are more than welcome. Though my main effort currently will be retooling 'Empire of the Rising Sun,' as it's badly in need, I will be reading and posting on this thread, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Patine]

It's been awhile, I know, but I've been somewhat busy lately. I'm surprised there's been no responses in that time period. In fact, this whole forum seems kind of slow lately. Mind, classes did begin about a month or so ago, and many Apolytonites are students (oh those halsean school days), so I guess that might explain it. But, I'm rambling...
I've thought about this conundrum (civ assignment, that is) even as I retool 'Empire of the Rising Sun.' It's a tricky one (I wish I had more civ slots), but I think I may have it, but I need advice on the idea. Here it is:
-Germany
-Italy (including the Nationalist Spanish)
-Western Allies (British Empire, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Yugoslavia, Iceland, and US forces)
-USSR
-Contested States (Poland, the Baltic States, Denmark, Norway, the Republican Spanish, Albania, and Ethiopia)
-Balkan Axis (Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria)
-Finland
-Demilitarized Zones (barbarians) (Austria, Danzig, the Czech part of Czechoslovakia, and the Rhineland)
-Tito's Partisans (also barbarians)
-Neutrals (impassable terrain) (Portugal, Andorra, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and, after the rules/graphics switchover, Spain)
I think I may well follow Eivind's advice and leave North America off the map (at least at this point). I don't know exactly how I'll handle the British and Soviet invasions of Persia (perhaps I'll lump Iran with the Balkan Axis or Finland). I also know the dangers of allies, but I've got some schemes in mind to control their meanderings. Anyways, does anyone have any advice on this setup?

[jim panse]

Patrick,

I would not favour having Italy & Nationalist Spain in one civ since it would make Spain enter WW2 once Italy is in. I´d consider that highly risky.

About the demilitarized zones, why not include some other nations as well? Nations like the Baltic countries, Finland, etc.?

[Sarsstock]

Well as I've said to Patine many a time this project CAN be done. The only challenge (and unfortunatly a monsterous challenge) is finding the perfect combination of civ's and alliances to best represent europe in the years leading up to and including the Second World War.

The possibility however of including every war from the Spanish Civil War to the Winter War however makes this challenge one worth the taking. It also doesn't hurt that such a massive cache of ToT WW2 graphics will make this one a sure hit visually .

[Patine]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Chris!

Well, I was talking to Steph on MSN last night, and he had an idea that may well work. He suggested dividing the players by ideology; as in Fascist, Democratic, and Communist. The player's would thus be arranged as follows:
Fascist
-Germany
-Italy
-Minor Axis (Nationalist Spanish, Finland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria)
Democratic
-British Empire (including US reinforcements)
-France
-Minor Allies (the Low Countries, Norway, Denmark, Greece, Poland, and Iceland)
Communist
-USSR
The barbs would be all the remaining countries (including the Republican Spanish and Tito's Partisans), except the inviolable ones (Switzerland, Sweden, etc., who would be impassable terrain), though the Democratic players would be allied to these lesser powers. I think this might be a good idea (credit, of course, to Steph). Events-triggered consequences for certain cities captured by certain players or certain units destroyed would bring the political reprocussions of certain actions in the pre-war years home. Any comments on this?

[Sarsstock]

Hmmm.... I think I like the idea of drawing the civ lines down the ideological lines. Now that I think about it that may just be the solution that will make this project work.

[typhoon]

But it would mean the Soviet Union would be at war with the Finns and the Balkan Axis in 1940...

[Eivind IV]

Originally posted by typhoon
But it would mean the Soviet Union would be at war with the Finns and the Balkan Axis in 1940...

My point exactly a page or two ago...And not only that, it would also mean war with Spain, as you've put them in the minor axis as well. Having Spain represented at all causes more problems than sollutions. I'd suggest removing them entirely and have it as impassable as well.

Also, I liked the idea of a western allies civ better than one minor allies civ. I don't know, but declaring war on the low countries as the war starts in Poland doesn't make any sense. I think this can be done by having Benelux, Denmark, Norway etc. as barbarian cities, with british unit occupying them (or french).

How far's the development gone anyway? Still only on the drawing board?