The (Second) MGE Sailing Succession game

[Bloody Monk]

Good luck, bunnyman!! And mercy, too!!!

May you find the WAY and lead the Sailing Sivers to a coherent and winning policy.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Before you make yet another change in gov't, think on this.

While switching to Fundy would bring in more coin each turn, ~100, staying with Dem lets some cities grow while you build. You can get every city to eight with tem, mp, courthouse, and maybe harbor. To get to twelve add harbor, col, duct. Eight is doable; twelve will take continued commitment from succeeding rulers. Some internal trade will quicken the pace.

Getting to a critical mass is important. So is better defense; warriors are a speed bump at this stage. Good Luck!!

Monk

[Old n Slow]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
warriors are a speed bump at this stage.

Monk

I think that warriors are a liability in that the city will shrink after the units vaporize -- cash 'em all in for 5 shields each, please.

[Bloody Monk]

A theft of Tactics would be nice before embarking on a military buildup. Or Conscription, or even Leadership. Unless you think you can beg for it.

Monk

[Ben Kenobi]

Besides, where's the RCC of Ben... you guys don't know what I was faced with

Hey, I left the buildqueues from BEFORE we had Muskets. What would you have me build in those cities? Warriors?

I'm stunned that you chose Communism over Democracy, since the only way we will ever catch up is to celebrate up to about 5 million people as per the Git's accomplishment.

I'm not a perfectionist, just look at the 3rd Civ2 DG.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Before you make yet another change in gov't, think on this.

While switching to Fundy would bring in more coin each turn, ~100, staying with Dem lets some cities grow while you build. You can get every city to eight with tem, mp, courthouse, and maybe harbor. To get to twelve add harbor, col, duct. Eight is doable; twelve will take continued commitment from succeeding rulers. Some internal trade will quicken the pace.

Getting to a critical mass is important. So is better defense; warriors are a speed bump at this stage.

You forgot the aqueducts. That's several hundred per city to maintain growth.

The core problem is the lack of GP to build that infrastructure. If excessive Lux doesn't do the trick, I will probably opt for 5-7 turns in Fundy (building camels and white goods along the way) before switching back to Demo trade/growth mode. And with nothing available short of the 3rd row, incremental builds are either slow or expensive. Increased shields would help overcome that.

Seems to me our original ICS plan has been trashed. We need some engineers-during-growth to increase the city base on our larger islands, too. (All while hoping the bad guys don't notice how weak our defenses are.)

This looks more challenging than Silly Rules...

(Welcome back, Ben!)

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


You forgot the aqueducts. That's several hundred per city to maintain growth.

Didn't forget, just abbreviated to much..."To get to twelve add harbor, col, duct." Duct = aqueduct.

I agree; it is going to take a load of coin. That's why I would have gone to Fundy immediately upon building SOL. Infrastructure for growth has always been the biggest priority in my view. But that was a long time ago and a lot of switches in direction.

I was just trying to point out that you could get some growth now under Dem at the cost of ~100 GP per turn extra under Fundy.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

We can currently (under Demo) afford one serious whitegood per turn assuming no 'van deliveries - our home cities are stalled at 8 (no ducts), I chose to prioritise CHs in the colonies - we currently only have one second level happy - the col in Troy - but we now have caths available as well - but these are both horrendously expensive - but will reward investment under Fundy - there are some hard decisions still to be made in this game....

Stu

[Ben Kenobi]

The core problem is the lack of GP to build that infrastructure.

We ought to remain in fundy to earn the cash so that we can actually build the infrastructure. We can't get the population without the infrastructure, and we can't get the infrastructure without the coin.

Trade would be a more viable method for increasing coins, if we were allowed to trade with the enemy. However, that option seems to be ruled out.

[-Jrabbit]

The Christmas Bunny

Hmm. Missed the last few posts before playing. Here's the net summary, with full log to follow...

Started in 1816, Inadequate/Excellent. We have 4.04 MM ppl and only 18 GP in the bank but about 195/turn income. Embassies with only 2 civs -- Zulus and Carts, both of whom we're at war with. Zulus (10 cities) and Carths (23 cities) are allied. In democracy, with 4 cities marginally celebrating and 4 size3 cities needing help. "Researching" Communism at 0 slider setting. Chinese have engineer, ellie, and ironclad nosing around the greater Sparta metroplex.

Now, it's 1836. We are Moderate/Excellent, with a pop of 4.77 MM and 520 GP in the bank. We've gone from Demo to Fundy and (on the last turn) back again, with (depending on my successor's -- La Fayette IIRC --choices) about 8-10 cities poised to grow under a 20-10-70 initial regimen. Currently studying Espionage.

Here's the zipped save, and happy holidays to all.

[-Jrabbit]

Turnlog 1816 - 1836

Under cover of darkness, a shadowy galleon moves stealthily from The Institute to Troy. A heavily wrapped package of burlap is dumped unceremoniously on the docks. "Take 'im, 'e's yours," grunts the mate to the dockhands, and the ship slides back into the bay...

1816
--Conditions are detailed above. SWliders moved to 40-10-50-.

1818
--We contact the Chinese to learn why they befoul our lands. They demand (and get) Monotheism, and graciously agree to leave.
--Carths learn amphibious warfare.
--Athens builds courthouse, celebrates WLTPD.
--Sparta completes temple, starts Courthouse.
--Argo (8) done celebrating.
--Charybdis hires some Einsteins.

1820
--Zulus discover electricity.
--Zulu horse and cavalry threaten our cannon and deip on their lands. Cavalry shot dead, diplomat escapes northward.
--W(don't)TP Any More in Archimedes, Cyclops (6) and Cimmeria (6).
--WTP in Aristotle.
--Two camels built. Galleons adjust position in chainlike fashion. Increments purchased.

1822
--Zulus and Carths swap amphib war and electricity.
--Polyphemus builds diplomat, starts barracks.
--Cimmeria builds oil van, starts Transport. (We need to upgrade our fleet!)
--WxTP in Siren Call. Getting tough to maintain growth...
--Argo builds silk van, starts aqueduct.
--Galleon disbanded in Ptolemy toward musketeer.
--Northern cdannon killed. Dip eludes pursuers, tries to find more Zulu cities. Transport with 4 more dips steaming north with intentions of tech theft.
--Warrior disbanded at The Institute.

1824
--Chinese (5 guns) announce they have discovered the wonders of Combustion. We are in awe...
--Pop now 4.73 MM.
--Mongols learn amphib war.
--Archimedes builds gems van, starts Musketeer.
--Aristotle celebration (our last) stops.
--Polly Famous, Ptolemy complete Musketeers, start camels.
--Athens complete Musk, starts aqueduct.
--Northern dip trapped, no new cities found...
--REVOLUTION (40-0-60, workers adjusted, increments bought).

1826
--Siren Call builds camel.
--We go FUNDY!! High Priest Rabbit calls for initial setting of 80-0-20. With some taxmen hired, our net per turn is 319 GP.
--Rush van in Circe.
--Many increments.

1828
--Pop hits 4.77 MM.
--Zulus go to Democracy. UN forces peace with Zulus!
--Mongols also reach peace accord with Zulus.
--Carths learn Fundamentalism.
--Galen completes Harbor, starts courthouse.
--Aristotle silk van, Cyclops deiplomat, Circe spice van, Troy musket, Intitute musket.
--Prepping delivery of goods, so we move to 50-0-50 and hire Elvi for celebrations in key cities.

1830
--Spanish and Zulus declare peace.
--Carth DD appears out of nowhere and sinks our Transport with 5 dips aboard.
--Mongols learn Fundy.
--Polyphemus builds barracks.
--Market in Sparta doubles route values (to 2 ), WLTHP and Courthouse start there.
--Argo silk (d, 252 GP) and Cimmeria oil (64 GP) delivered to Troy.
--Increments back to 80-0-20.

1832
--Chinese start Hoover Dam.
--Carth cannon north of Zululand kills our valiant dip.
--Polly Famous finishes camel, Galen finishes CH, Cimmeria builds Transport, Argo an aqueduct.
--Communism discovered, Espionage our new goal.

1834
--Mongols at war with French.
--Outside Ptolemy, Zulu ironclad killed by Chinese ironclad.
--Carth in gov change, at war with Spanish.
--Athens builds aqueduct, declares its love for the High Priest.
--Sparta courthouse, Aristotle musket.
--WLTHP Day celebrated in Circe, Athens, Troy.
--Athens Wool (d, 211) and Circe beads (d, 123) delivered to Siren Call.
--We have some cash and some cities ready to grow. So -- REVOLUTION.

1836
--Carths go Fundy, declare war on Mongols.
--Plato Courthouse
--Ptolemy camel, starts courthouse
--Cimmeria aqueduct, starts harbor.
--The Institue builds a van.
--Circe musket, starts aqueduct.
--DEMOCRACY started, President Rabbit elected on extremely short-term basis...
--Spanish chariot appears north of Polyphemus.

To La Fayette, my presumed succesor -- There is enough money (520 GP) to permit completion of several white goods, which should ensure adequate celebrations to get us up to 6 or 7 MM ppl. Similarly, there are plenty of vans floating around, which should get us Espionage in short order. (The coming of Espio is the reason I backed off the diplomat builds.) The ship chain is not the best, but a steady turnover toward transports should allow us to retire those galleons over the next couple decades.

I was very hopeful of some decent tech theft, but the brutal ambush of over half our diplomatic corps by the Carthaginians prevented it. (Travelling on the NE side of our largest island is NOT recommended. Enemy boats from 3 different civs (plus the odd Spanish chariot) indicate this is a crossroads area...

Don't know if this will get me out of a return to my chores at The Institute, but I feel some progress has been made. Maybe we can still turn this one around...

[Bloody Monk]

Sounds good; I especially like the cashing of warriors for musketmen. Slowly the picture shapes up. Really bad joss to lose the dip raiding party; let's hope the luck changes.

Really impressed that you were able to play and post at this time. SWMBO was very kind!!

Monk

[La Fayette]

Not much thinking required to design a strategy: we are about 17 techs behind the civs we have met and we are close to discovering Espionage.
La Fayette's speech to the people is short: "All men will be trained as transport captains and all women will be trained as spies".

Main events:

1838:
Spice from Circe to Sparta = 248g

1840:
ESPIONAGE discovered
Salt from Troy to Sparta = 110g
Oil from Siren Call to The Institute = 66g

1844:
Government collapses ! (take care LF! don't fall asleep!)

1846:
Back to Democracy
Gold from The Institute to Argo = 228g
Oil from Sylla to Argo = 76g
Silk from Aristotle to Charybdis = 222g

1848:
Gold from Ptolemy to The Institute = 66g

1851:
We steal Refining from Chinese (in Anyang)

1852:
We kill a Zulu Cavalry (brave Ellie turns black!)
We meet a Spanish explorer (not willing to swap techs)

1853:
We steal Tactics from Zulu (in Naples)

To my successor:
If I were you, I would go on building transports and spies (the map is big, so I guess 30-40 spies onboard 15-20 transports would be fine) and also building our Treasury.
Our research center is named 'AI'
(... and we have Tactics now, if they get really angry

).

[Bloody Monk]

Good show!!

Now, wake up again and send the save...please.

Monk

[-Jrabbit]

I knew that setting La Fayette on a course that includes spies would clarify matters.
Just a bit surprised he didn't go Commy to get vets!

thus, i can only presume the democratic growth program continues apace...

(Still a bit lackluster on your logs, monsieur!)