Scorched Earth Succession Game

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Updated play list... I think

OK, so I know sirsnuggles and Jrabbit are in. ss, you're next... if you're still recovering from the 'No Settlers' game, just say so and Jrabbit will go next, then you.

SG[1], are you ok to play after that?
Straybow - good luck with the other 3 successions you're playing now... that happened to me two weeks ago
Duke, let us know if you change your mind.

1. STYOM
2. Old n Slow
3. Sparrowhawk
4. Jrabbit
5. sirsnuggles/SG[1]/obiwan18


More welcome...

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm in, I've got my civ cd, and I just need to upgrade my computer and restore home internet access.

No biggie, but it should take a few days to get everything all sorted.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Welcome aboard obiwan... you can either precede or follow SG[1], depending on which of you gets organized first

More welcome... with enough players we can ICS

[sirsnuggles]

Please drop me down a bit, as I am still working on other civ2 projects. Just as a side note for you trade bonus guys, I've got a game I'm playing where I've only got nine cities (one of them is only size 3), but I'm getting over a 1000 beakers per turn.

I don't think you guys fully understand my strategy. Some of you think that I don't use caravans--that is entirely incorrect. I don't seek to exploit the initial trade bonus, but instead the on-going trade routes. My size three city is getting 40 beakers per turn. I'll explain more later when I finish putting together my demonstration.

One of my projects is a spreadsheet that calculates nearly every aspect of a game. With it, you'll be able to see how adjustments in the tax structure or the construction of improvements will affect gold, luxury, beaker, shield, trade lost to corruption output and so on (one feature will measure the best city to place the capital). The spreadsheet also can be used to calculate trade route bonuses, on-going trade routes, and perhaps I'll even throw in science advancement costs. I'm struggling with the corruption issue at the moment. I haven't been able to get it to compute accurately yet. At the moment the game seems to treat base trade, and trade routes separately in its calculations (or I'm using the wrong formula, or wrong order of operations).

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by sirsnuggles
One of my projects is a spreadsheet that calculates nearly every aspect of a game. With it, you'll be able to see how adjustments in the tax structure or the construction of improvements will affect gold, luxury, beaker, shield, trade lost to corruption output and so on (one feature will measure the best city to place the capital). The spreadsheet also can be used to calculate trade route bonuses, on-going trade routes, and perhaps I'll even throw in science advancement costs. I'm struggling with the corruption issue at the moment. I haven't been able to get it to compute accurately yet. At the moment the game seems to treat base trade, and trade routes separately in its calculations (or I'm using the wrong formula, or wrong order of operations).

Sound like a laff riot!

...er, uh, I mean another vital contribution tot he community. Yeah, that's it!

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Alrighty then, Jrabbit is next... you ought to be able to fit ten measly turns in before 9/5/03.

Sir s, sounds like a worthy contribution. And I'm not averse to having improvements in cities - I often play with the SSC strat and have a key city producing 500+ beakers/turn by the mid game.

What I don't do (anymore) is build a library in a city that only has 8 trade arrows.... or a market. Much better (to my mind) to build 'vans and get 200 g and 200 beakers per delivery, than to add a half dozen gold or coins per turn.

[sirsnuggles]

Six, I see your point concerning libraries. I guess I'm committed to attempting to eventually turn every city into an SSC city. That's why I build libraries when the city is still small, because to me, it's simply preparation for bigger things. Generally I will build lib's before I discover trade. After I discover trade, I start every city building vans until each city possesses three trade routes (I send my vans to the highest trade route grossing city--the foreign city with the highest trade and technology), and then continue building science improvements as before. If I've discovered auto, then I will build sprhwy's before constructing lib's and U's, because the hwy's increase both the base trade (depending upon terrain), and the actual trade routes by 50% (for a cumulative increase that approaches 100%).

It should be noted, and this came as a shock to me when I was creating my spreadsheet, that Isaac Newton's College will not give your city a single beaker if no library is present. When I discovered this, I thought my civ2 game engine broke. As I investigated, I discovered that Sir Isaac (far from simply doubling your science output) actually doubles the effect of science improvements.
Hence, building a library will double your beakers (+100% instead of 50%), building a U will triple your science (200% instead of only 100%), and a research lab will quadruple your beakers (+300% instead of only 150%).

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by sirsnuggles That's why I build libraries when the city is still small, because to me, it's simply preparation for bigger things. Generally I will build lib's before I discover trade. After I discover trade, I start every city building vans until each city possesses three trade routes (I send my vans to the highest trade route grossing city--the foreign city with the highest trade and technology), and then continue building science improvements as before.

I do the same thing, except the other way around. 3 trade routes, then a library (except for special cities like capital with Colossus, or celebrating with HG. Those extra arrows need to be exploited early with a library, especially when one considers that very early trade options are often internal, with lousy payoffs). Small cities might not ever get a library, unless there is a significant impact to overall science (e.g. When I need 100 beakers per advance, 5 beakers/turn is significant. When I need 2000 beakers per advance, 15 beakers is not.).

2 issues - first, by building libraries before getting trade, you may be handicapping yourself in building early wonders (with food caravans). I aim for Monarchy first then Trade, and hope that I get Pottery or Writing as my 'off path' tech.

Second, what about time value of money? Why make an investment in a library before it's really useful - put the trade routes in first (and get the benefit of the bonuses) and then build the library later, when the city has 20+ arrows, and the library will earn its keep.

Third (hey, a third issue ), if you start building multiple 'white goods' in the very early game, they will be built very slowly. Units like Caravans can be incrementally built, cheaply - a Library always has the same cost - (320g to start, or half that less the number of shields already added, x2). If you get attacked halfway through the build, you'd lose a lot of shields in the Library. A Caravan in progress can easily be changed into a defender. If you build the white goods later, they can be rushbought with Caravan bonuses, thereby freeing up the city to build something else, sooner.

If I've discovered auto, then I will build sprhwy's before constructing lib's and U's, because the hwy's increase both the base trade (depending upon terrain), and the actual trade routes by 50% (for a cumulative increase that approaches 100%).

I agree, SH should be built before libs/unis/banks etc - also for the trade bonuses they provide.

It should be noted, and this came as a shock to me when I was creating my spreadsheet, that Isaac Newton's College will not give your city a single beaker if no library is present.

Yup, knew that one. I laugh when I capture an AI city that has Isaac and no other science improvements.

[-Jrabbit]

I have downloaded and will try to squeeze 10 turns in tonight...

[-Jrabbit]

My city is Lagomorphia...

OK, I had to stay up past my bedtime to do it, but in the interest of moving this forward, I made the supreme sacrifice...

2400 B.C.
Nothing worth changing...

2350 B.C.
We discover Code of Laws and start on Monarchy (rate = 9 turns)
Hut = NONE Settler!!
Barbs moving toward the vacant Spare Oval. Warrior rushed.

2300 B.C.
We settle the city of Lagomorphia on a river-forest square near Greeks (coal-fruit-wheat sweet spot with river transport). It's a jungly area that will need improvement.
(The Rabbit s river-forest squares!!)

2250 B.C.
various movements, featuring further exploration by our intrepid NONE Chariot.

2200 B.C.
more of the same...

2150 B.C.
Barbs land 2 archers beside Slowburg, defended by a lone warrior and just a turn away from building a settler. We sit tight and cross our fingers...

2100 B.C.
Barb archer kills our lone warrior, demands 50 GP tribute to save Slowburg. We pay...gladly!

2050 B.C.
Barbs depart the Slowburg metroplex. Wandering horse+king barb meanders toward Spare Oval.

2000 B.C.
(see 2050 BC notes)

1950 B.C.
We finally dicover Monarchy!! Studying Map Making (plan to trade with Greeks and let my successor choose the tech path).
Hut @ 20, 68 yields Adv Tribe. Revert game, find ancient scroll with secret of Horseback Riding.

1900 B.C.
Change build orders to Horsies in several cities.
REVOLUTION!!

Who's next?

[-Jrabbit]

...and the save

Notes for my successor --

1. It sure would be nice to get rid of the Barb near Spare Oval. He has been damaged into the red. I have move a warrior out to try and draw his fire and thus claim the King.

2. There is a new Settler, currently irrigating a river-grass-dot near Slowville, available for building.

3. We are studying Map Making and the Greeks have it. Since we're about to go Monarchy, trading is encouraged. The Greeks are hostile and Supreme (6 spears).

4. Please build a horseman to defend Lagomorphia.
With a minimum of juicy city sites, we may want to build a trireme and try to establish a presence on another continent. Just a thought...

Here's the zipped save...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Looks good. Any one of the next 3 (SG[1], sirsnuggles, or obiwan) should feel free to post that they intend to play, and play.

[Ben Kenobi]

Trying to get my new computer delivered tonight...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Interesting that you've changed your nick, Ben, and yet the thread shows 'last post: obiwan18' still.

Play when you can.

[Ben Kenobi]

I wanted obiwan, but some stiff already took the nick.

Ben Kenobi also distiguishes the 'old' obiwan from the new.