Scorched Earth Succession Game

[Sparrowhawk]

Press Enter.

Greeks develop Feudalism ( first Gunpowder from us, now they have Feudalism, anyone else think we should be attacking the Greeks ...who may I remind you are our closest neighbours? )
Egyptians acquire Feudalism from the Great Library

1500 AD (6)
Lagomorphia Completes Diplomat and starts on Muskateers (we may need the defense very soon though the poor terrain around Lagomorphia is helping our defense of the city)

Press Enter.

1510 AD (7)
SKJ/Pax/Kenobi Kave partial rushing of Caravans
Not much else

Press Enter.

French develop Gunpowder

1520 AD (8)
Spare Oval Complete's Leonardo's Workshop (with help from some Food Caravans which so overfed the population they all went to work on finishing this Wonder of the World off ) Starts Palace.

Leo's Upgrades:Chariots to Elephants and Trireme to Caravel
French change from Leo's to Isaac Newton College
Egyptians change from Leo's to Isaac Newton College

Crusader in Lagomorphia attacks and kills two Greek Elephants

Press Enter.

Egyptians nearly done Isaac Newton's College
Greek government overthrown
Mongols develop Code of Laws think they need some help against the Barbs??

1530 AD (9)
Rush Palace in Spare Oval for 186 Gold (cause I need to have it finished by next turn and spent too long building Leo's Workshop

Press Enter.

Egypt (Memphis) finishes Isaac Newton's College
French change from INC to Adam Smith
Greek become Republic

1540 AD (10......finally some may say )

Spare Oval builds Palace.....Spanish capital moved to Spare Oval
start Sun Tzu's, and there are a couple Food Caravans close by which could be used, but if my successor disagrees, feel free to change it, no production there as of yet (Like you need my permission )
Crusader's in Lagomorphia kill Greek Elephant (Dip checked first and would have cost 202 Gold to bribe)
Crusaders and Muskateers complete journey from Egypt and return again to Warlord soil, to assist in the war against the Greeks.
Crusaders kill Greek Catapult and are promoted to vet as a result of their bravery
Crusaders kill Greek Catapult

Sparrowhawk examines empire and decides to [strike]pass the Torch[/strike] to the next leader (oops, I guess not......the Torch went out on my first turn ) before I do more damage!

On further thought, I am not sure why I wanted Leo's so badly in this game, but I seldom play a game I don't go for it, and didn't really think it through , not sure it will really benefit us much in this one. I will begin my Institutionalization very soon, though in my defence, we should be able to bribe some cheap units and upgrade them as well as any cities we may bribe in the near future (though by the rules of this game, this will not be many ).

Note to next leader......Pay STYOM was only defended by Caravans when I started my turns, and those were used to Wonder build so Pax STYOM is currently only defended by....:ummm:......Kenobi Kave?? Might want to rush a defender there, I intended to, but didn't quite get to it.

We have 1190 Gold and are about 2/3 of the way to Democracy. Though Lagomorphia is producing a Muskateer, it should not be a problem to build a Palace, though I kinda like the Palace right next to Leo's Workshop

/me signing off.......hope you wern't hoping for/expecting more!

Edit: Not sure what happened, but my first post had too many images and I thought I lost it (eaten by Apolyton...in which case I would have lost it as it took me over an hour to journalize this)....seems to have worked now though...just in two posts

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Jeez.

I grab Lighthouse for us (which we badly needed, at the time) and immediately build walls in Torch (which would have distracted the Greeks for years, as they throw unit after unit at our Muskets behind walls... to say nothing of being a base from which to dip-rob the Greeks)...

...and the thanks I get is that we lose the city to a Diplomat who should have been executed by the units inside Six before he got close? AND my other city is undefended?

[Bloody Monk]

Sparrowhawk

You mention repeatedly that you wanted to get maps, but failed. You also mention denying AI requests for techs in this vane. If their attitude is less than enthusiastic, sometimes worshipful, you will rarely get maps. You must gift tech to lighten their mood. Laughing at their demand for a tech will not generate any maps.

Perhaps you are aware of how to get maps; but, it is not at all clear from your log.

Still pondering how a city was lost to dip-rape. Is La Fayette playing for the AI??

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

No surprise to me - the AI will frequently take advantage of the half price offer to recapture a city by dip-rape (anecdotal evidence only - particularly when Supreme or Mighty) this is the usual result of an attack that stalls before the AI is taught proper respect - and has led to this RAR favouring attack in overwhelming numbers

[-Jrabbit]

Hmm, haven't viewed the save, but judging by the log it looks like we'll need to re-trench a bit. Looking forward to boring turns devoted to protecting what little we have left...

The learned panel's input on short- and long-term goals (especially WoW vs trade) would be most welcome. My thought is to build the Lady, allowing us to go soft Fundy and raise an army so we can raze our enemies. (Perhaps with some democratic celebrations for growth beforehand??) After that, work toward espionage, which will provide a quick-to-build mobile razing force.

But in the meantime, we need to pay attention to the basics -- defense, trade, and finding a suitable city for OnS.

** Can't believe that we've lost 3 cities -- in the one game where we can't afford to lose any. **

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Jeez.

I grab Lighthouse for us (which we badly needed, at the time) and immediately build walls in Torch (which would have distracted the Greeks for years, as they throw unit after unit at our Muskets behind walls... to say nothing of being a base from which to dip-rob the Greeks)...

...and the thanks I get is that we lose the city to a Diplomat who should have been executed by the units inside Six before he got close? AND my other city is undefended?

The Aged one is correct in the lack of defence of Pax STYOM, I agree the defender should be rushed ASAP, and it was an error on my part not rushing the defender earlier, I took the chance of needing the caravan and waited, but once the caravan was done, I meant to rush a muskateer to defend......and forgot Inexcusable I agree.

As for Six's Torch, I too would have liked to have held the city, but in my opinion, nothing I could have done differently would have helped. The diplomat was not visible before I ended the turn (and this was technically before my first turn, I made my opening adjustments and pressed enter and before I knew it Six's Torch was in the hands of the Greeks again......thanks to a diplomat who somehow had more then 2 movement points (the crusader in the city had no movement points left, and the archer defending the city was fortified). I apologize for the loss....but don't think it was preventable by anyone. Hopefully you didn't take offense to my turnlog, I meant everything in jest no offense intended (I beleive I said something about a torch?? )

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
You mention repeatedly that you wanted to get maps, but failed. You also mention denying AI requests for techs in this vane. If their attitude is less than enthusiastic, sometimes worshipful, you will rarely get maps. You must gift tech to lighten their mood. Laughing at their demand for a tech will not generate any maps.

Perhaps you are aware of how to get maps; but, it is not at all clear from your log.

I was not clear on the actual attitudes, but I knew they had to be favourable (I just didn't realize it had to be Enthusiastic of Worshipful).

Regardless, I mainly wanted the French and Chinese maps, so with the French I gifted Warrior Code and traded Economics for Iron Working with this in mind. However, I guess it was not enough to change their attitude enough to exchange maps (obviously). As for the Chinese, I would have gifted them a tech or two as well if it got us maps, but they asked for Invention right off the bat, and as it was my intention to get Leo's Workshop I did not want to gift them Invention (they were building Magellan's and I think they still are.....I didn't want them to change to Leo's). I laughed at their request....and am still laughing as I didn't intend to give them Invention (though as I stated in my post.....maybe I should have )

Originally posted by -JRabbit
** Can't believe that we've lost 3 cities -- in the one game where we can't afford to lose any. **

I am not positive, but I think we have lost 2 cites (so far )...Slowburg (the city of Old'n'Slow) and Six's Torch (the city of STYOM).

/me looking forward to others fixing the mess he left behind

[-Jrabbit]

OK, two then.

Two too many.

[Bloody Monk]

Sparrowhawk,

Getting maps is one of the best intel functions in the game. At Deity, the AI will usually only exchange after they have map making and are Enthusiastic or Worshipful. If you are unwilling to massively give tech don't bother contacting much less asking for maps. They will always ask for your latest and best tech. If they are Hostile they will often demand a tech (or cash) just for talking. If you say no, their attitude gets worse and often war results. So, if you have a new discovery that you don't want to share, don't make contact.

Also, trading techs does not in my experience alter the AI attitude. You have to give and give and usually give again to get enough attitude improvement for a successful map exchange.

Periodically during the game some of the AI will suddenly sport an improved attitude. By checking the diplomacy screen regularly you will be able to refresh your maps with little or no additional tech gifting.

Robust constructive criticism is a valued tradition here but so is asking before hand. If you aren't sure of something....

@ -Jrabbit

Love your seasonal avatar

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

Also, trading techs does not in my experience alter the AI attitude. You have to give and give and usually give again to get enough attitude improvement for a successful map exchange.

Monk

In my experience, trading techs does change the AI attitude on the initial contact. I'm not sure about subsequent exchanges though.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers


In my experience, trading techs does change the AI attitude on the initial contact. I'm not sure about subsequent exchanges though.

RJM at Sleeper's

RJM

For me it has become a question of "keeping my eye on the ball." If the objective is to get maps, then going off on a tangent mid-course does not make sense. For I have seen too many instances where trading has NOT changed the attitude. And if there are only a few techs to give, a trade may mean the difference in getting their map.

After getting the map is the time to make the trade.

@ Sparrowhawk

One more point of interest. Giving them their first choice is best for getting a big jump in attitude, sometimes two or more levels, where skimping and giving second choice will bump the attitude one level at best.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

Oops - I just ran a simple experiment -- in 1380 move the (fortified) archer from ST out onto the road - press enter..... along comes Greek dip and asks for parley! and a greek cattie comes up to the walls of lago -- but no loss of cities!!!

Ah well

Stu

[Bloody Monk]

So much for there was nothing that could be done and the mysterious "diplomat who somehow had more then 2 movement points." Perhaps it was the ROAD...maybe??

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

Unfortunately for us all - hindsight is always 20-20

Don't sweat it young raptor - but when you (and others) have cities with roads/rivers running into enemy territory - think defence in depth

Stu

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
@ -Jrabbit
Love your seasonal avatar

Thanks, Monk.

I have the save and will play -- both Scorched and Lazy -- weekend.

[Sparrowhawk]

But the Dip still had to have more then 2 movement points, the Road ends after one square just outside the city. Therefore the dip moved to the unroaded River (and it appeared to me that it wasn't moving along the river), then one square onto the roaded tile where Scouse Gits moved the Archer, and then finally the 1/3 movement point into the city. The only way I can see that this would have worked would have been if the river continues south (out of our current viewable area...and I admit this is possible).

As for moving the Archer out of the city, I had not even considered this as I would think the best defence of the city would be Fortifying the archer within the city, the idea of defended the city by moving the city outside had not occured to me, and it is a method I will take under advisement. Thanks for the tip! (and other suggestions...the reason I signed up for a succession game was to help my game out, hopefully no one else has to pay for my errors as STYOM has already).

/me the enlightened