Scorched Earth Succession Game

[Old n Slow]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Simply not true!

Don't know -- all I know is that a lot of lovely ladies behaved like Cleopatra's end. (Five in a row.)

Sparrow -- I count the defenders, sabotage the infra (spy's choice -- better odds, but takes more spies; better chance of growing vets, I think.) Once walls are down, poisen until #defenders +1; smack away with vet cavs -- should get to an empty size one city -- enter with most wounded attacker & voila! Fresh land!

Took a few turns to get the system in gear -- also too many turns roading to next set of targets.

The Mongols are easy -- look how lokg the barbarians have held them at bay. -- Feel free to send a boat with a couple of spies that way to buy up some None units...Maybe get a second city? (but I don;t think that quality cities are in that direction.

Razing a couple of Egyptians cities would be appreciated -- not only will it solidify that front, but it will add to our presence on the rock & prepare us for more customers...

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
and Monk - effective no - poisoning always works, but efficient yes - vets have a higher escape chance
Stu

Perhaps I misconstrued these words from OnS,

lose 5 spies for no reason (only much later does the thought occur that city walls may protect against water poisoning.)

I didn't think walls mattered, but OnS seemed to imply that the poison attempt failed, not that the spies were lost after an otherwise successful mission.

So, OnS, did the poisoning work afterall?? Like Sir Rabbit, I have little experience using the poison function. Does it ALWAYS work??

Thanks.

Monk

[Grigor]

OnS - I think SG(1)'s method is a little more elegant - hit with the cavalry first and poison when the city is empty. We know that an empty city lowers bribe cost, and it may be that poisoning is also more effective (or survival rates higher) when the city is empty. Nobody has tested this AFAIK.

[Bloody Monk]

Here is a link to SlowThinker's excellent work on dips &spies. The first reference is to a La Fayette research paper on poisoning.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=335830#post335830

According to this, poison water is always successful as Stu said.

I still do not understand the OnS comment.

Monk

[-Jrabbit]

Must be that he was losing the spies while the city shrank.

Can't imagine what else it could be...

[Sparrowhawk]

One more question before I start...
Pi-Ramessess is key to our trade (9 trade routes by my count). Does the scorching of this city help us or hurt us?
Obviously losing those trade routes hurts us short term, but does it free up trade routes and allow us to build more Caravans and deliver them for the juicy bonuses (both science and )?


Should we hold off scorching it or do it as soon as possible?

/me admitting his knowledge of freeing up trade routes is sorely lacking

[Bloody Monk]

Sparrowhawk (a small but fierce, and chatty, raptor )

Who among us has great experience razing AI cities?? I think you are correct but am not sure. It would be a drag if those routes turned to zeros and stayed in place. Even if a route slot is freed up, I doubt that supply slots will free up. Other tactics are needed for that, possibly. When you get some time, read, or reread, Solo's piece on trade in the Early Landing Guide that tops the Strat forum.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Well, you got me curious, so I did a test. Razing an AI city causes the trade routes to disappear and frees up some or all of the supply slots. This is something new to me, though it must have been previously discovered.

With this in mind, you may want to postpone razing a city with many trade routes to your cities. You will also get a big hit to ongoing revenue when those routes disappear.

Solo is still indicated for trade help.

Monk

[Sparrowhawk]

Not only ongoing revenue, but celebrations could stop as well, and this will slow science too....and so on.

Still, Pi-Rammessess is in a strategically strong position for the Egyptians, and unless I am prepared to bribe it for my second city (and Lyons looks awfully good for that), I am unsure about razing it, especially now that you have confirmed my suspicions.

/me

[Sparrowhawk]

Okay, I am in the middle of turn number 5 and things are going well but I am not yet finished, turns are taking me a while (mostly because of the note taking).

I had three Military goals (I set accheivable goals ) and have accomplished them all already, so I am pleased. Will let you know as soon as I am done, and will post a detailed log (I am on page 7 right now of my notes, and I write small!! (-Jrabbit and bloody monk should be happy...I think they are the ones who appreciate detailed logs!)

/me the slow

[Sparrowhawk]

In keeping with Bloody Monk's "chatty raptop" description above, I thought I should offer an opinion on the spiea/vet spies description (though I have not yet read the thread on spies that Monk posted the link to above).

It seems to me (observation, not research) that the spies are more successful in their attempts against cities that are not capitals (you get the warning message when attempting to sabotage, but not for poisoning, but I suspect it applies to poison too). While playing it seems I have lost a disproportionate number of spies while poisoning capital(s).

In other words, it seems to me while playing that if you are poisoning a capital, while it is successful every time, you are more likely to lose spies (captured), whereas against non-capitals, it seems the spy is more likely to survive and escape to the nearest city. Anyone tested to disprove or prove this theory?

/me conjecturing while out of town overnight, (as I said above, I am in the middle of turn 5, though with the end of the weekend so ended my free time, I will return to this on Wednesday I hope).

One further question on spies, has anyone ever done a list of the results (what happens and where do they go)....i.e. when a spy poisons a city it is either captured, or it returns to the nearest city, when a spy is expelled it returns to the capital, when a spy sabotages it returns to the nearest city, when a spy steals a tech it ??returns to the nearest city??, as I type this, I wonder if the only time a spy returns to the capital is when it is expelled by the opponent? Does it return to the closest city on surviving all other encounters?? Exceptions being establishing embassies and inventigating cities which both leave the spy outside the city? (Sparrowhawk asks his longest winded question yet )

[Scouse Gits]

All is revealed in M. LaFayette's esteemed paper



Stu (RTFM )

[Sparrowhawk]

Wow!! (and I don't mean Wonder of the World)

I should have read that years ago, I am very impressed, quite usefull knowledge.

I bow before La Fayette (and Slow Thinker) and the effort put into this.

I had hesitated to read it earlier, due to the sheer volume of threads in Slow Thinkers post, but even reading through the first two threads I have a much bettter understanding of spies (and more importantly vet spies ) and I can make better use of them in the current game (Scorched Earth).

[Bloody Monk]

RAPTOP???

If that's what you prefer, but the spelling I used was slightly different.

Now that you have read the suggested post, perhaps you will better appreciate this old saying...

"One who is lost is advised to ask directions of the One who knows the way."

La Fayette knows. SlowThinker knows.

For future reading, I suggest you check out the several "Info:" threads. Long but very good stuff, there.

Monk

[Sparrowhawk]

Just the save for now, as it is late and I am going to sleep

My log will follow (hopefully tomorrow, but I can't promise ), with significant detail I hope, but to summarize...
At 1870:
Babs - 5 Cities
French - 13 Cities
Egypt - 6 Cities
Chinese - 12 Cities
Greeks - 9 Cities
Mongols - 4 Cities
Total - 49 Cities

At 1878:
Babs - 5 Cities
French - 13 Cities
Egypt - 4 Cities
Chinese - 12 Cities
Greeks - 4 Cities
Mongols - 1 Cities
Total - 39 Cities

I am pleased, and prepared for the criticism, but perhaps you will want to wait for the log to criticize