Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Story Thread 10 - July 2011]

[Inca (DoE)]

All parties involved:
We apologize for our delay in mediation, but the emperor was having a night of debauchery and is now well rested, if not a bit grumpy and beheadached. His words are as follows:

Look, this comes down to two things that must change within the next [turn] before we have to start declaring war. First, the Aztecs and Americans should agree to NAPs with Africa. We are in a bind here, because Rus has not been overly forthcoming with their evidence, yet we generally trust their word highly, but of course the Northerners are both claiming otherwise, so we can't quite decide what the actual facts are without evidence of admission. Regardless, given it is the Ottoman causus belli, we feel that if a just peace is to be found, it should be found with NAPs for Mali and the Zulu as well. It is a reasonable request so long as the terms of the NAPs aren't too long or constricting for the Aztecs. We don't feel it necessary to have the Americans sign such agreements, as we feel they are an innocent party in all of this, and as we have said many times before, the selling of arms (especially to a nation at peace!) is not an act of war.

Second, the Ottomans must pay reparations to the Americans. That the Americans would pay them in gold and arms is ridiculous. Our ultimatum still stands, and if the Ottomans insist on this course of negotiations, the next time we [log in], war will be declared. At best, that gives them [18 hours] to get this straight. We feel that 750 gold and 6 grenadiers should be appropriate compensation for the damages and lost productivity of American land, but the two are free to bilaterally come to some horsetrade with respect to NAPs and reparations.

There have been some who constantly did evil deeds, but by whose actions we have found more friends than we had ever before in Incan history

THANK YOU FOR THIS OTTOMANS

um, yes, this world's history is basically the history of Inca. 'bout time someone acknowledged that fact!

[Native America (DoE)]

To the interested parties:

"Mali has already acknowledged the guilt of Azteca"

How can the nation of Mali acknowledge the guilt of a third party, especially when the "guilt" involved is an alleged plan to attack Mali?

Ottoman teachers must teach something different in the way of logic from that taught to the children of The People.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

Let us start by saying that we thank the Incas they agreed to play the role of negotiator.

As we said we trust in your wisdom to come to reasonable terms for all three parties, America, Ottoman and Aztec.
And yes we Aztecs even want to be reasonable towards our enemies, because that is the only way this damaged relationship can be healed.

First, the Aztecs and Americans should agree to NAPs with Africa. We are in a bind here, because Rus has not been overly forthcoming with their evidence, yet we generally trust their word highly, but of course the Northerners are both claiming otherwise, so we can't quite decide what the actual facts are without evidence of admission. Regardless, given it is the Ottoman causus belli, we feel that if a just peace is to be found, it should be found with NAPs for Mali and the Zulu as well. It is a reasonable request so long as the terms of the NAPs aren't too long or constricting for the Aztecs.

1) We have absolutely no obligation to signing these NAPs with Mail and even Zulu as these 'invasion plans' do not exist.



2) One element which should be included into these peace talks is the extensive and deliberate damage done to the biggest Aztec city of Texcoco (as described in #118 of this log).

This damage was done in the phase of the war we call the "Ottoman withdrawal" and were completely unnecesarry, and extremely damaging to the Aztec economy. We acknowledge that some part of this damage can be considered normal war damage, but a large part can't.

The amount of damage done is a large loss of life and about '1000 hammers' as we Aztecs count production value. Additionally the per turn (Aztec unit of measuring time) production value of Texcoco fell back from 17 to 6 hammers.

Therefore it is just that we receive compensation for the deliberate damage done to Texcoco.



3) Good to hear that our lead negotiator thinks damages should be payed to America. We agree to this. If the amount is reasonble, that is not to us to decide upon.



4) We will waive the right to ask for damages done to the Aztec army and navy.
As we know that if a party asks for everything they want in the process of making peace no peace will be actually be achieved. We Aztecs will be reasonable.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Approved Responses:

First and most importantly, to Native America... Yes "acknowledge" was incorrectly used, and we apologize. "Agrees" was the more appropriate word to use. Mali agrees that Azteca is guilty. As a reminder, Mali has firsthand knowledge of at least some of the evidence against Azteca. Native America is not privy to any of the evidence as far as Turkey is aware. Our remarks concerning Azteca's guilt was directed principally at those nations privy to the evidence as those not privy to the evidence are not in any position to draw conclusions, with all due respect to Native America.

However in the interest of full disclosure here is a tally of how nations have indicated their attitude towards the charge that Azteca plots to invade Africa:

Russia - guilty
China - No comment
Neandor - no comment
Inca - Undecided
Engalnd - no comment
Native America - undecided
Arabia - no voice
Valhalla - no comment
India - no comment
France - innocent
America - undecided
Japan - no comment
Israel - no comment
Turkey - guilty
Azteca - innocent
Zulu - no voice (guilty via Turkey and Mali)
Mongolia - no comment
Mali - guilty

As you can see above, that is 4 nations who find Azteca guilty and 2 who find Azteca innocent. Please be aware that one of the who find Azteca innocent are Azteca themselves and 1 nation who is not privy to the overwhelming evidence against Azteca.

To Inca, we respect you greatly, but we will not agree to pay any monies to any nation as reparations for the defense of Africa. That decision is final and comes directly from the Sultan. There will be no negotiations whatsoever on any reparations to be paid by Turkey as we are in the right, acting in the defense of Africa, pre-empting an invader. We have returned all the North American cities which is far more than we had to do. A simple return of the North American cities was what Azteca publicly stated they wanted, and this was more than America wanted, as they were willing to give up Havana. We returned Miami by not asserting war rules as was our right, and we returned Havana and Texcoco.

As a counterproposal, we demand a transfer to Turkey of all units that threaten Africa, as outlined in our proposal to America, and a signing of the NAPs that we previously presented to Azteca and America. America no logner posseses these units, Azteca posseses all of them. Therefore our business with America is concluded, we require nothing of America other than agreement to sign the NAPs we have delivered to them. Azteca must turn over their threatening offensive units.

Please be on notice, that failure to sign these NAPs will result in appropriate action, as we have a clear majority of world opinion on our side. Additionally, as a condition of peace, Azteca must publicly admit and apologize for their plot to invade Africa.

Finally, we ask Inca to publicly state whther they find Azteca guilty of a plot to invade Africa or not. If Inca finds Azteca innocent, then Turkey rejects Inca as a mediator for peace negotiations and requests that a new negotiator steps forward immediately.

Taner, on behalf of the Sultan

[Mali (DoE)]

Official communiqué of the keeper of the throne of Mali:
Reached our ears to evidence that a nation known to stay away from that world politics (Native America) commented on official statements of Mali. We were accused of lying this nation and therefore feel obliged to respond. Mali has strong evidence of intent to invade the Aztec Africa. The nature of this evidence is such that it can't be shown publicly. Of course we can not expect the Aztec leaders will make written confessions. But Mali thinks too much delves into this topic for us all is clear Aztecs and their allies are thinking that Africa is poor and without allies, and have decided that is a good time to invade, but we warn that any intruder will break their teeth in the defense of Mali. We propose to sign non-aggression pact between the Aztecs and Mali. Let dressed in feathers offer period of this contract.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

To Mali:
If you agree we hereby have a NAP with you for the upcoming 50 turns.
I will send an ambassador to get the written NAP.
But we are bound by our word as soon as you agree with this.

As we said before we have absolutely no obligation to signing this agreement as the 'invasion plans' do not exist.


If requested by the Zulu's we are very much prepared to sign such an agreement with them too.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

To Ottomans:

We are still waiting for your 'voice of peace' to start talking.
You didn't react to any of the proposals the Inca have made.

First, the Aztecs and Americans should agree to NAPs with Africa. We are in a bind here, because Rus has not been overly forthcoming with their evidence, yet we generally trust their word highly, but of course the Northerners are both claiming otherwise, so we can't quite decide what the actual facts are without evidence of admission. Regardless, given it is the Ottoman causus belli, we feel that if a just peace is to be found, it should be found with NAPs for Mali and the Zulu as well. It is a reasonable request so long as the terms of the NAPs aren't too long or constricting for the Aztecs.

We reacted to our part of the Incan proposals and already agreed to this, without asking for any compensation.

Second, the Ottomans must pay reparations to the Americans. That the Americans would pay them in gold and arms is ridiculous. Our ultimatum still stands, and if the Ottomans insist on this course of negotiations, the next time we [log in], war will be declared. At best, that gives them [18 hours] to get this straight. We feel that 750 gold and 6 grenadiers should be appropriate compensation for the damages and lost productivity of American land, but the two are free to bilaterally come to some horsetrade with respect to NAPs and reparations.

This item of the Incan proposal you chose not to react on.

One element which should be included into these peace talks is the extensive and deliberate damage done to the biggest Aztec city of Texcoco (as described in #118 of this log).

This damage was done in the phase of the war we call the "Ottoman withdrawal" and were completely unnecesarry, and extremely damaging to the Aztec economy. We acknowledge that some part of this damage can be considered normal war damage, but a large part can't.

The amount of damage done is a large loss of life and about '1000 hammers' as we Aztecs count production value. Additionally the per turn (Aztec unit of measuring time) production value of Texcoco fell back from 17 to 6 hammers.

Therefore it is just that we receive compensation for the deliberate damage done to Texcoco.

This item of the Aztec proposal you chose not to react on.

As a counterproposal, we demand a transfer to Turkey of all units that threaten Africa, as outlined in our proposal to America, and a signing of the NAPs that we previously presented to Azteca and America.

This proposal we can answer clearly: as we did offer NAPs to all involved African states we do not have ANY units that threaten Africa.
To add a more personal note:

I Camaxtli, leader of the Azteca, do hereby solemnly swear that we will not attack Mali and Zulu and break this NAP.
Furthermore I swear to not break any NAPs now and in the future.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

An additonal remark to the Ottomans:

I didn't know that one could vote about what was true or not.
Here I am not even starting the discussion that you got the position of all stated you mentioned right.

This is not what it is about.

We made clear steps toward peace, now we wait to see some steps from you.

[America (DoE)]

-----------TELEGRAM FROM EISENHOWER, FROM THE FIELD-------------

Eisenhower wishes the world to know that it only offered Havana to the Ottoman Empire once; this was when the three largest American cities were about to fall, and Americans were willing to do anything to stop the killing. Things changed radically since then, as that was at the very start of the war.

We are now left with a war torn nation. Once again, and we cannot stress this enough: America never provoked the Turks, and had NEVER had contact with the Turks. On top of that, America knew absolutely nothing about a pending invasion of Africa. If we would, we would have done all in our diplomatic power to stop that from happening.

We think compensation would, under these circumstances, definitely be more than fair. Our nation was ravaged without warning. If the Ottoman Empire would find it in their heart to give America some troops to help rebuild our nation, it would be an honorable first step towards renewing trust.

-----------------------END TELEGRAM------------------------------------

[Inca (DoE)]

First, we think the Ottomans are confused by "clear majority". I generally means something clearly over 51% of the nations of the globe, and I am not seeing any such majority in existence publicly. The clear majority seems somewhere between "indifferent" and "unsure".

Second, the attack on Havana was unnecessary and cruel to the weak American economy. Even if the Aztecs are so guilty, the Americans are guilty of nothing, and an attack on their cities was wholly uncalled for. Perhaps a declaration of war would have been necessary to ensure Ottoman passage through their waters at a critical point, but to take two cities is unjustifiable, especially as Miami has little connection to all of this. Reparations are certainly in order and far more justified than the attacks themselves, even if the word of the Russians is to be trusted (as we are so inclined to do).

At the very least, insisting the Americans or Aztecs pay reparations to the Ottomans is absurd. NAPs should suffice, if further attacks on Ottoman allies are being fretted over. Behind-the-scenes treachery and plotting are one thing that almost all nations of the world (perhaps with the sole exception of the noble Natives of the North) are guilty of. Breaking treaties is of another cloth, and the word of the Aztecs and Americans should suffice.

We are glad to see that the Aztecs are willing to sign NAPs with their pruported targets. The final obstacle, therefore, is the issue of reparations. Again, the Americans and Aztecs owe the Ottomans nothing.

Our public position on the Aztecs' plan is not changed since our last position: we will not take a side until presented with incontrovertible evidence. Three people insisting that something is so does not make it so. Now, we had foreknowledge of Aztec considerations on invading Africa a long time back, but for all we know that never came to anything after we attempted to dissuade them from such an assault. The plans were vague, not directed at anyone in specific, and we thought that we had rid them of the desire after pressuring them to not do so. We apologize to the Mali and Zulu for not mentioning this to them, but it was brought up in sessions of discression, and we are discreet people. So, we are yet further inclined to believe Rus and all in their accusations, especially as "invasion fleets" were discovered and mostly destroyed in the recent fighting. Still, Inca could be considered to have "invasion fleets" (see our military response to all this), and yet we never had the intention to invade anyone. So, although we cannot take a side on the issue without evidence (even if private in nature), we do lean heavily towards the Russo-Otto-Malian story. That still is "undecided", though, even if it is a biased indecision indeed. This bias is what has underpinned our insistence over reparations to the Americans, while keeping more mute over reparations to the Aztecs. Should, in time, their "invasion" prove to be an unfounded belief, our bias would disappear, and we would insist that they be compensated as well. As such, the return of their lands is enough to satisfy us, given our current inclinations.

Should the Ottoman position on the Aztecs be proven to us, given the Ottoman actions to this point and that they are now only seeking reparations from the Aztecs over an invasion that we would see was indeed imminent (and not the Americans), and this whole action against them was indeed justifiable as a reaction to imminent mortal danger to an ally who was unable to so defend himself, we would consider the issues at hand settled and the ultimatum dismissed: peace has been attained, the Americans owe the Ottomans nothing, NAPs offered by the "Ottoman side", all cities returned, this is sufficient for us.

If the Ottomans wish to make us non-mediators, that is fine. It will not change the ultimatum deadline. We are certainly not a neutral party in this, so our mediation is naturally fraught with issues. We find ourselves in the position out of necessity: we wish to avoid war, as do the Ottomans, and this is in effect a war of words and ideas, the goal of which is to avoid one of bullets and hooves.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT

Let's say for the sake of argument that the intention of the Ottomans was to prevent an invasion of Aztec on Africa.

Then answer to the following questions should be easy:

1) Can they explain why they attacked the Americans in the first place, while the Aztec fleet was in Texcoco and Tenochtitlan and the Aztec army was spread out over all Aztec cities?

2) Can they explain why they wanted to have 3 major American cities?

3) Can they explain why the Aztecs only came into the picture the moment the Aztecs stepped up to defend America?

4) Can they explain why they didn't simply inform the world what was about to happen?

5) Given the status the Aztec forces were at the beginning in the war, can they explain why a simple warning that the Ottomans would interfere should not have been enough?

[Aztecs (DoE)]

Now, we had foreknowledge of Aztec considerations on invading Africa a long time back, but for all we know that never came to anything after we attempted to dissuade them from such an assault.
The plans were vague, not directed at anyone in specific, and we thought that we had rid them of the desire after pressuring them to not do so.

This is indeed true. This was somewhere in around the 1300s or 1400s and at that moment the Zulu's were in disarray and not governed.
And the moment the Incans said they don't approve of this we dropped the subject immediately.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

We once more stress that peace should be resolved soon.
Time is ticking and turn (Aztec time measurement unit) is almost over.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

In the spirit of openness we disclose the letter which got the Aztecs involved in the, at that moment Ottoman - American war:
The greatness of thought and injustive of it all inspired prince Xochipilli to found the Aztec Intervention Force.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/231/knipsel235324.gif

[England (DoE)]

An Open Letter to All Nations

England has been observing this war and situation intensely. We also had knowledge, from the Inca and others, that the Aztec were planning an invasion of Africa. Now the Inca and Aztec have both confirmed this publicly. We do not know how imminent it was, however the evidence of an Aztec ship scouting Mali and Zulu shores and refusing to leave is certainly damning proof. Plus, the presence of ships being loaded up with troops on Aztec's eastern coast again supports this claim. It further seems that the Aztec have been deliberately deceiving the world as they repeatedly denied any plans to attack Africa, and now they admit to those plans. They now maintain that they had abandoned those plans years ago, but since they were previously arguing strenuously that there were no such plans in the first place and have now admitted to their lie we see no reason to trust them now. We also find the Aztec guilty of plotting an invasion of Africa.

At the same time, while it was not unreasonable for the Ottoman to assume that the Americans were assisting the Aztec in their plans, there was insufficient evidence to support a full invasion of two American cities with the cost to life and infrastructure that accompanied them. Unless evidence emerges to support the Turk claims, we find that America, our former protectorate with whom we share a common language and culture, is not guilty of the charges.

With these assertions as a starting point, we hope to propose a peace treaty that may be acceptable to all sides. Our proposal:

1. The Turks must give America 1,000 gold to compensate them for the damage done to their people and cities.
2. The Aztec must give 5 frigates to the Ottomans to ensure they will not be used for attacking the Mali or Zulu in the future.
3. The Aztec and Americans must agree to a 50 turn non-aggression pact with Turkey, Mali, Zulu, Japan, Israel, England, Inca and Russia.

If the Aztec have no plans for war then there should be no reason not to sign the non-aggression pacts. Refusal to do so betrays their warlike intentions.

Our history with the nature of compromise in our Parliament has taught us that true compromises include pain and profit for all sides. We feel this agreement accomplishes this and is a middle way that is based on the facts of this war. We urge all sides to accept it.

-Queen Elizabeth I