Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

I vote "no" for the measured war b/c I'm not interested in a game where I can just login every turn to end the turn for the next 200 turns. Let the Russians and the Turks then just take all my cities so that I don't have to login anymore. (3 armies are already moving towards my 3 remaining cities)

If I would have known that this is "such" a game I would have overtaken the Mali and the Zulu 50 turns ago.

So in reality, you vote "no" because you still intend to keep fighting and try to retake your cities. And if you can't do that then you will just keep refusing peace until you are elimminated, because that is really what you are trying to force at this point, elimmination... which is obvious from your post where you say "then just take all my cities so that I don't have to login anymore". In fact I remember you saying something when you lost tel Aviv like "just hurry up and finish me off" or something like that...

My understanding of diplogaming may not be perfect, but what I thought it was supposed to be about was storytelling and roleplaying primarily, with the gameplay aspect as a backdrop. Now when you say "I'm not interested in a game where I can just login every turn to end the turn" that has nothing to do with roleplay or storytelling, because you could fill the story thread with beautiful stories and propaganda about the "oppression of Israel", "Israel in exile from her homelands", "the Israeli diaspora" etc... What you are talking about is you are not winning the game in a PURE MP sense and so the game has no more fun for you. When you say "I'm not interested in a game where I can just login every turn to end the turn" you are wrong, there is plenty to do... you can roleplay, and tell stories, etc., isnt that the diplogame spirit that you keep telling everyone about?

So why not set an example, ie, my civ's situation is hopeless from a pure MP perspective, but I am going to demonstrate why diplogaming is great, and not like pure MP games where you whine and quit when you are losing, because your MP situation does not matter in diplogames. It is about storytelling, not having a certain number of points or cities or technological advancement. What does it matter how advanced you are? If your civ is backward, tell great stories about that! Or is it that all that "diplogame spirit" you keep citing is just hogwash, and really you just want to win and be a top tier civ in a pure MP sense?

I gambled and I lost. I'm not complaining about it.

WHAT?!???? I can't believe you just said that

You have been complaining about this non-stop. Not to mention you have been complaining non-stop about losing Jerusalem at least ever since I joined the game. (Which as everyone knows BTW was waaaaay after the razing of Jerusalem). So as you might understand, it has been challenging OOC to accept your OOC complaining about something that I did not do. OOC, when I say YOU backstabbed ME, that's why I dont trust YOU, I am being accurate. But then you respond OOC that Turkey backstabbed you, well OOC I NEVER backstabbed YOU. So it is bizzare to hear you keep conflating the OOC with the IC and using it as an excuse to refuse peace. (Ekron was an offer that you refused and I warned you in advance, so don't even waste breath comparing that to that spectacular backstaber-palooza that you pulled at Ekron Oasis that killed Russian AND Turkish AND Arab troops BTW as you keep trying to gloss over.)

Anyway, at this point I'm not sure what else to do. I guess it is technically illegal to elimminate you as you clearly want, so maybe the way forward is to just reduce Israel to one city and then just let you ignore the civ. Or maybe you can wait take over another civ that needs a sub as you are clearly fed up with running Israel.

[Robert]

Indeed!

[Russia (DoE)]

It will be nice if the other site the diplo- community grows.

[Robert]

"Apolyton" is not hosting diplogames, we're just a platform and anybody can host diplogames here.
I personally am not hosting (and playing in) two full diplogames at one time.

I wonder if it's a good idea to spread the diplo community out over two sites (since it's quite a small community)
On the other hand, maybe it'll generate some new fans for the genre.

You can use whatever texts or guidelines created for the diplogames here. I'd be nice if there would be a credit link though.
Good luck.

[Inca (DoE)]

Hello all, I'm a player in this game, just not using my anonymous account for this post. I and Beta (who also plays in this game) are trying to get a huge-map diplogame going at WPC. If any of you are interested in joining that game please visit this thread and sign up. http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/show...-set-up-thread It is open to all and it would be great to have some of the experience diplogamers in the new game to provide a bit of a guide on how to roleplay, etc. Robert and OzzyKP and the most active roleplayers in this game too would certainly all be desired (hint), but again it is open to all.

Thanks.

Before I commit fully, is Aployton hosting a full diplo game anytime soon, or just DoF?

[Rhothaerill]

Hello all, I'm a player in this game, just not using my anonymous account for this post. I and another gamer who also plays in this game are trying to get a huge-map diplogame going at WPC. If any of you are interested in joining that game please visit this thread and sign up. http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/show...-set-up-thread It is open to all and it would be great to have some of the experience diplogamers in the new game to provide a bit of a guide on how to roleplay, etc. Robert and OzzyKP and the most active roleplayers in this game too would certainly all be desired (hint), but again it is open to all.

Thanks.

[Russia (DoE)]

Ottoman propaganda.
Israel has never cheated on anybody, except on that one nation that cheated big time on Israel.

Israeli propaganda - you cheated on me in personal. When we was talking what and how you should do in Africa, in the end you said to me "OK, I will do exactly as you ask me" and these are your exact words. And you did not made as we agreed on purpose.

[Russia (DoE)]

But to me it sounds like a robber saying: "Give me all your money on your bank accounts and your clothes so that I can buy medication for my dying kid." (while putting a gun on my head)
Good reasons, but dude.... all my money????

To me, it was more like when a policeman sees someone suspicious and most probably armed and orders him to to give his weapons and the suspected starts to explain that he have right to carry his weapons and they are only for protection and starts moving his hand to his back, where the policeman cant see and when the policeman orders him again to drop all his weapons, the suspected to start explaining that he will drop only his knife, while keeping his pistol and his shotgun. What you think the policeman will do? Shall he insist to the man do disarm fully and just then looks if he have the right to carry these weapons, or if he refuses to shoot him ?

[Inca (DoE)]

Israel, if you would reduce your factions down to 1 clear negotiating party, you might find the Inca will press for a fair peace for you, but at present I'm not getting involved with all that when you've got 3 or 4 different factions to deal with...

[Israel (DoE)]

I never argued that the razing of Jerusalem was unfair.
It was very harsh, but I think it was fair. I gambled, building the city on the borders of the Ottoman empire, and lost.
It involved betrayal and backstabbing, but that's fine and even cool within the game. It just had an impact on Israel, but that's what happens. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

My emotions aren't clouding anything. I would most probably have left and done other things if I would have been emotional. I just fear that diplogaming changes for the worse.

I said it before, what happened to England was over the top as well.
I would have supported a reload, I was just too lazy to propose one myself.
Still yet England can't be compared to Israel. Not before and certainly not after the wars.

@Russia:

I told you already that if you want the good, but you just dont like the price, you must bargain.

I did. Alternatives were offered.

In Russia, the jews are known cheats

Ottoman propaganda.
Israel has never cheated on anybody, except on that one nation that cheated big time on Israel.

All I wanted was you to have shown me good will to be redeemed and once again friend of Russia. You showed nothing like this till the last few messages.

Well, I can't blame you for not being that familiar with vassal-capitulation.
I understand your reasoning. But to me it sounds like a robber saying: "Give me all your money on your bank accounts and your clothes so that I can buy medication for my dying kid." (while putting a gun on my head)
Good reasons, but dude.... all my money????

[England (DoE)]

A top civ that doesn't tech for 10-15 turns may become a subtop civ.
A behind civ that can't tech for 10-15 turns becomes a death end civ. There's no perspective anymore.

England is still a top civ, look at turkey, they are strong and big.
How can you compare that to Israel? We were already far behind when the first war started.
Remember that Israel got an early kick already when our 2nd city and holy city was razed in the very beginning of the game. We have been behind all the time. And your offers would push us back even further. Harming a big civ doesn't compare to harming a small civ.

You compare apples with oranges.

You were the biggest most advanced nation in the world when your 2nd city was taken. That's fair, right?

I believe I was pretty upset over that at the time and would have supported a reload (maybe I asked for one, I don't remember). But now it does sound like your emotions are clouding your judgment in this matter. You have been offered many good peace offers and continue to stall for time and try to attack again.

[Russia (DoE)]

It's not just the 2nd city, it's also a holy city. I built the Oracle to get to Judaism, that means a lot was invested into Jerusalem.

Yes, it was a huge achievement - when I saw this I was like Wowww!!!

I gambled and I lost.

True, exactly.

The canon upgrades costed me 1/4th of what you asked from me. And there's a difference between investing money and losing money.

I told you already that if you want the good, but you just dont like the price, you must bargain. I was even willing to give you back some part of the gold back to you later. In Russia, the jews are known cheats and I wanted to be sure you will not use your gold to wage war against me or help my enemies. To have all of your income and forced 10-turns peace was good way to ensure me good sleep at night. All I wanted was you to have shown me good will to be redeemed and once again friend of Russia. You showed nothing like this till the last few messages. You have your agenda and role playing, but so do I do too. Russia is an empire. And empires are not maintained by timidity If you decided to stood at Russia's way, you should have known you will me smashed under the heavy wheels of the empire. And investing those money in buying my friendship I think was far better investment when investing them in cannons brought utter destruction and suffering to your nation.

"Fun" means imho that there's perspective. Not per se to win the game, but to achieve something.

Somewhat agree. And still there are goals and achievements for every size. And achieving them is worthy no matter of the size.

Worst of all of course my attempt to see if I could sneak to Hebron unseens.

Yes, it was good attempt at deception.

[Dubhghlas]

The Measured War Rule is for situations when people's emotions about the situation preclude a peace that will allow the players to move on without making a civ unplayable. It seems to me that the emotions of at least one player here are quite thoroughly precluding letting the war end in a decent way. I therefor vote in favor of applying the rule here.

[Israel (DoE)]

It's not just the 2nd city, it's also a holy city. I built the Oracle to get to Judaism, that means a lot was invested into Jerusalem. Not a problem, btw, but it's a huge backlash. I gambled and I lost. I'm not complaining about it. But it was quite a strike.

The canon upgrades costed me 1/4th of what you asked from me. And there's a difference between investing money and losing money.

"Fun" means imho that there's perspective. Not per se to win the game, but to achieve something.

My last few turns were indeed strange. Worst of all of course my attempt to see if I could sneak to Hebron unseens. Unfortunately that failed. It's b/c there was nothing else for me to do.

[Russia (DoE)]

Why you say it is so bad to lose your second city? France lost its second city. I lost my third.
Why you say it is impossible for you to stop teching for 10 or 15 turns? You gave half of those money for upgrading cannons in attempt to defend against power, which I warned you is coming at you You cant say I did not warned you many times. Yes, you took your chances and you lost. Nothing wrong with that.

This war already costs me not 10 or 15, it costs me more like 30 or 40 turns of no teching. What I have earned? You give England and Turkey as example of top civs. They are top not because they hame much more GNp than you. I know these as they are my friends but I wont tell details, but I can assure you their GNP is comparable to yours. And all this because of one war, which we have nothing to gain from.

I do understand the requirement the game to be fun for everyone, but this "fun" is so personal...

Your role is excellent to my understanding. Just cant understand the last few turns.