Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Russia (DoE)]

I just proposed cease-fire to Israel. The actual peace will be made when the conditions from the agreement are met. But basically, yes - there is peace between Israel, Turkey and Russia.

[England (DoE)]

Is there peace?

[Russia (DoE)]

Israel have hoped, bluffed, gambled, bargained and at the last possible time when everything seemed lost for them, they managed not a bad deal, (returning them their capitol and 2 other cities) considering the very next turn their 3 remaining cities were going to be captured by overwhelming armies.

Not bad, not bad at all.

Of course it was far better in my POV they to just have taken my initial offer and have saved their nation from such disaster, but where all the typical eastern haggling and bargaining would have gone?

[Native America (DoE)]

I would like to know how "your demands are too much for Israel to pay" when the alternative is for Israel to perish from the map? This seems a bit difficult to comprehend.

[Robert]

You should have it now, Aztecs!

@Rhothaerill: I meant a link to this forum on Apolyton, my name isn't that important

[Aztecs (DoE)]

Robert,

I still can't vote...
Password don't work (and yes I checked the original mail you've sent me)..

[Rhothaerill]

"Apolyton" is not hosting diplogames, we're just a platform and anybody can host diplogames here.
I personally am not hosting (and playing in) two full diplogames at one time.

I wonder if it's a good idea to spread the diplo community out over two sites (since it's quite a small community)
On the other hand, maybe it'll generate some new fans for the genre.

You can use whatever texts or guidelines created for the diplogames here. I'd be nice if there would be a credit link though.
Good luck.

It was not meant to fracture the community, but in part to bring new players in. 5 of the 8 signed up so far are brand new to diplogaming. A sixth is an occasional diplogame sub. I'm hoping if we get enough players we can play a huge map like this one.

And don't worry, you and OzzyKP were both mentioned in my first post over there for being the progenitors of the background info I provided.

Care to join the game over there?

[Israel (DoE)]

but I am skeptical that it happened the way you keep saying it did.. but that is an aside... That's fine for the purposes of IC storytelling.

You can PM "The Priest" who played Turkey back then.
What happened:

- Arabia and Turkey were very angry about Jerusalem being build.
- Arabs declared war on Israel, Israel could stop them.
- Ottomans approached Jerusalem with too many armies.
- Ottomans and Israel negotiated peace. Israel offered land to Ottomans to compensate.
- Ottomans then accepted this proposal and official peace was signed. Included in this peace was the Ottoman support to Israel against Arabia.
- Arabia then also signed peace.
- 2 turns later Jerusalem became holy city of Judaism
- Ottomans then declared war and razed the city.

Just saying b/c you say you don't know what happened.
Not b/c it's a part of the argument I have or that I'm complaining about it.

[Israel (DoE)]

Ottoman player: When you joined the game I wanted to help you to understand the history of the Ottomans and Israel. Exactly to avoid that you would be surprised by any attack from Israel. It was not to belittle you. Just to make you aware.
In fact the opposite of what you accuse me from.

And I am complaining indeed, about 3 civs ganging up on Israel.
I am not complaining about Jerusalem being razed.
What I said was that Israel was already a behind-small civ since the razing of Jerusalem, and that's why we can't affort to pay that much.

Please link me to one of my posts where I am OOC complaining about the razing of Jerusalem.
Once again: you can't find it b/c it's not there.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

[q]You confuse IC with OOC.
Of course the Israelians still mourn the loss of Jerusalem.
And yes, I know that you are not the 'player' who razed Jerusalem. But like I said, the razing of Jerusalem was never ooc challenged by me. I just put it down here to explain why Israel was already behind and why your demands are too much for Israel to pay.

No I do not confuse them. Stop using that as an excuse. That was the way you tried to justify backstabapalooza... when I was new to the game, saying things like "I should pay better attention to my IC role" and I should "learn how roleplaying works" almost like you were gloating that my naivete as a new player to the whole Turkey-Israel thing. Ironic how you used the OOC fact that I was not aware of the IC jihad you had declared on Turkey against me, and then say that I am confusing OOC with IC. You used my OOC unawareness against me IC.

Again I am not confusing OOC with IC when I say "I cant believe you have the audacity to claim you are NOT Complaining"... 90% of your complaining has been OOC. Yes sure you do some nice IC propaganda too, but I dont regard that as complaining... That is just good storytelling and roleplaying which I enjoy (and always give you 5 points for BTW). Israel can "mourn" Jerusalem all they want, but do it IC. What I am talking about 100% is the endless OOC complaining that you are doing in the organization thread.

For example, as I understand it, it is completely OOC to say something like "people arent respecting the diplogame spirit" and "you cant compare Israel's points to Turkey's, because points mostly come from tech so Israel is still behind Turkey even if Israel has more points" You were basically arguing this earlier. There is no way to say that is IC AFAICT, especially when it was in the organization thread. Your OOC arguments went on and on and on to the point where people were calling for "Cold Turkey Time"

And I AM NOT saying you dont have a right to do this. I agree with France that long OOC arguments are good for clearing the air and having debates on things. All I was pointing out was the very narrow, very limited, very specific, point that it is PREPOSTEROUS for you to say you're NOT complaining. You ARE complaining... A LOT. Not IC, but OOC... constantly. Go ahead and complain, just dont complain and complain and then say your NOT complaining. That's all Im saying.

Turkey backstabbed Israel (not a problem, part of the game). And Israel stabbed Turkey back. The fact that there was a different player since then doesn't make a difference.
You must try to keep Turkey and You apart.

First of all, as I have said before, I still have not gotten around to reading the old PMs and threads to verify the circumstances of Jerusalem's razing, but I am skeptical that it happened the way you keep saying it did.. but that is an aside... That's fine for the purposes of IC storytelling.

But you are using it in your constant OOC arguments in the organization thread, which seems misplaced. Let me illustrate what I mean:

If you say that "Yes I am arguing in the organization thread, about Jerusalem's razing and how damaging that was to Israel and how that is a justification for bla bla bla, but all that argument is still IC because Im only talking about IC stuff"... then fine, I dont agree, but that dosent matter, because even if I did, you still shouldnt be arguing IC stuff in a discussion about a Measured War vote right?

If on the other hand you agree with me that some of the arguments are OOC, then that is exactly my point... stop complaining OOC complaints and then claiming "I'm not complaining", and "Its OK I accept that" and "its no Big deal I'm willing to deal with it.", because you ARE complaining, It IS a BIG deal to you, and you ARE NOT accepting it. Accepting is saying "well played, play on" not endless OOC complaining. Again complain all you want. Just stop complaining and simultaneously trying to portray yourself as some kind of martyr, good sport that never complains. Does that make sense?

[Israel (DoE)]

So as you might understand, it has been challenging OOC to accept your OOC complaining about something that I did not do. OOC, when I say YOU backstabbed ME, that's why I dont trust YOU, I am being accurate. But then you respond OOC that Turkey backstabbed you, well OOC I NEVER backstabbed YOU.

Turkey backstabbed Israel (not a problem, part of the game). And Israel stabbed Turkey back.
The fact that there was a different player since then doesn't make a difference.
You must try to keep Turkey and You apart.

[Israel (DoE)]

Ottomans: You have been complaining about this non-stop. Not to mention you have been complaining non-stop about losing Jerusalem at least ever since I joined the game.

You confuse IC with OOC.
Of course the Israelians still mourn the loss of Jerusalem.
And yes, I know that you are not the 'player' who razed Jerusalem. But like I said, the razing of Jerusalem was never ooc challenged by me. I just put it down here to explain why Israel was already behind and why your demands are too much for Israel to pay.

[Russia (DoE)]

In fact, while hot debates are held here, Russia managed one more victory on the diplomacy front, bringing peace to Israel and Turkey.

Details are to come in the story thread.

[Inca (DoE)]

I think it's only the Arabs that need a permasub right now, and they're far from a top tier civ, as I can attest. If Tel Aviv and 2 other cities are returned, Israeli's position is probably better than theirs in 50T, if not solely because they inhabit a far more important area.

Doesn't make sense to do that, and it still would be against the spirit to have Israel basically given to the Ottomans/Russians, even if all parties agreed, as France and other nations can't just swallow up a neighbor civ to compensate.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

In fact, why dont we just do that. You take over some other civ that needs a sub (I think there are a few) and Israel can just become a 1 city Zombie-civ until somebody who doesent have alot of time for turnplaying, and MP strategy, but just wants to tell great stories steps in and takes Israel over?