New type of diplo game

[Egypt (DoD)]

few thoughts about this game:
Many said that I shoud not be as untrustful, "paranoid" as I was, but diplogames made me this, I've experinced and saw soo many treachery that I will not fully trust anyone in diplogames ever. So I was not even surprised when my only ally just launched an attack on me for whatever reason.. it could had been a prince hunting in the forest, getting killed, and evidences showing that the murderer was an egyptian assassin, anything
I tend not to break living treaties, but deception and conspiracy was not missing from the desertlord's repertoar . Making plans with civ A to attack civ B and with civ B to attack civ A.. but I'm sure i was not the only one.
Then my legendary peace offers which I always hoped that they wouldn't get accepted. When I was "begging" for peace against my invaders it was just a deception.. ofc I did not want peace, my armies were still on their way to russia, my true target. I was quite sure that on my land i can defeat the invaders, tough if they start pillaging that would had hurt.. but i have decided if they do then i will raze the russian target city.. that's why i propsed the treaty about non pillaging-non razing: if you refuse it would had been your fault.

Then my peace offers to Babylon, his stubborness always worked for me

Btw wars: I have started my first war just to have some fun and use my technological advantage (which was not as big as I thought) and I was a bit dissapointed how things worked out during that 30 turns while I was away in China. After I have learnt about the big alliance I have changed my plan, thought me Babylon and Sumeria could work against them, even with nukes. But Babylon did not want to play along, ofc He was preparing his religious plan, even his ooc comments led me invade him: he was already ahead in points, a huge empire surrounded by russia-a pacifist, and me.. someone had to weaken him.. I did not attack then because of the chance of DV, if that had bothered me I'd just had build 5 more missionaries, it would had been enough then.
My second war against them was more against the DV, I was worried that when my plans of CV found out some would vote for him as the least bad option, better hindu than the desertlord . Diplo worked great here.

I've decided to go fro culture during my first war against Babylon, it was quite different than my last cultural game with india where i was preparing from the beginning. Here i missed the good wonders but I had acces to all seven religions, so in around 1800 I have started to spread them like mad, then invited Rome's cultural corporations, I don't think he would had thought how much I needed them, rush builded the temples and cathedrals, my cities had +500,550% culture where needed.
With the internet I could had turn off research after I got modern armors and mech inf myself, and with sushi + the happiness from culture I was able to slave a huge army.. ( I think i have lost 2-300 units and killed 3-400 during the game)

[Byzantium (DoD)]

I can not play my turn for a good 10 hours, because it will take time BUT if Egypt is correct that CV is next turn then no matter...

I have 10 ICBM's and 120 Armour plus another god knows how many units just 2 turns from Memphis.

I have to go sleep now... midnight in Australia, I mean Gondor!

[Egypt (DoD)]

Well, if you shoot all your ICBMs then it will probably give you one more turn.

[Sumeria (DoD)]

Sumeria defends her right to use weapons of mass-destruction in defence. The loss of human life is a price Desertlord showed that he was unconcerned about paying. No road is closed to Sumerian Generals and no mercy is either expected from, or offered to, Egypt.

Gilgamesh

OOC. I am a bit offended that everyone assumed I couldn't be Sumeria as it was doing so well!

I admit that I was forced into playing a totally different style of game from usual as I normally am uber peaceful and very much a builder. Geography, 3/4 rain-forest and surrounded on every side, and shortage of resources forced my hand as Sumeria's starting point was awful. Also being hit with a bronze age attack from France stopped any hopes of peaceful expansion and wonder construction. Finding Pinchak right after was the final throw of the dice and I had to become Gilgamesh the Mass-Murderer! It is not my natural game but I can be a militaristic leader if forced.

[Egypt (DoD)]

I'm sure everyone meant it as a complement, we haven't played too many games together yet, but you played much better than with the incas in the DoC game

[OzzyKP]

Yea, sorry, St. Jon, I assumed you were Mongolia too, for the same reasons... You should have stayed in DoE! India could have been great! Would be so great to have another strong Civ in that area to balance out China... oh well.

I wasn't really in this game, though subbed here and there. I swore, initially, that Egypt was a new player all because early on he was complaining about his start and I had to give him tips on how to handle a start filled with flood plains. I thought, "a veteran player would do wonders with such a starting location, this guy must not know what he is doing to be so upset over it." When he started doing well I assumed he took my advice and really accelerated his skill-level, hehe.

Now that I know he was one of diplo's best players, all I can say is... what were you whining about!?! Of course you could kick ass with the flood plains start.

Anyhow, I hope everyone enjoyed the map. It is one of my favorite maps I've made. I highly recommend you guys try out Fall from Heaven 2 on this map, it is a great deal of fun. It is a bit different too, since there are civs that start in the "new world" and an island civ too. Based on my play testing with the original map at least I don't think any start was "bad" they are just different. In my original map/mod the vampire civ started where Sumeria started and I can usually do wonders with them. My favorite civ/start in the original FfH2 game started where Rome did. In my game they have enemies on all sides and it is a great challenge. I like the role playing flavor of that civ too, holy crusaders.

Also, I mentioned this before, but when I made the original map I set it up so that civs had terrain that fit with the flavor of their civ. Dwarves in mountains, elves in forest, horselords in plains, etc. So I tried to do the same with placing your civs. Celts in the mountains, Mongols in the plain, Egyptians in the desert, Vikings in tundra.

I also endevored to pick some civs and leaders that usually never get picked in our games, like Babylon & Sumeria. I thought it would be good to try them out, I'm glad to see that they both made it to the end!

I hope everyone enjoyed the game and enjoyed the map. Once again, I highly recommend you give it a shot in the way it was originally meant to be played. My map:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8140

The Fall from Heaven 2 mod:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1

[Sumeria (DoD)]

We have just lost a turn without either Byzantines or Sumeria playing!

I thought it was going to be extended for Deity?

[mzprox]

Ozzy, first of all I like complaining , I regreted a bit that I've said I was not experienced, I only said it as a disguise ., But: When I said that place is bad I meant it. I took a big risk and got lucky that I had survived. without bronze and horse it was bad against the barbarians, and I went on aggressive science and neglected my military for a very long time and that was the only thing what saved me against Rome when he came, a few turns later than he should had.
Later my production and population was very low, fortunately I like playing with slaving, no one uses it as much as me.
Even you said that this civ usually gets killed early, and I can see why.

[Byzantium (DoD)]

We have just lost a turn without either Byzantines or Sumeria playing!

I thought it was going to be extended for Deity?

I assume the CV is now achieved so does not matter.

Leave game up so we can all login for a last time

[Robert]

Congratulations Egypt / mzprox! you just won a Cultural Victory!!
Well played and well done!

I hate it that despite our 4 (!!) wars I wasn't able to stop you

The first Roman/Egypt war was executed by OzzyKP since I was away on a ski vacation.
I hated it that I couldn't do it myself. I would not have done a better job, but it might have helped if there wouldn't have been confusion about subbing, etc. Especially b/c I for long tried to play myself though my cell phone connection (the connection sucked in the alps!) and was too stubborn to let Ozzy do it from day 1 of my vacation.

I'm sorry St Jon, you just were never a top player in a former game, so that's what I started of from.
From now on I'll consider you to be a scary neighbor as well

I'll give more reflections later!
Great game! Great as well that we finished it once again. The end play was very very interesting!

[St Jon]

Very well done mzprox! To achieve a CV out of a load of sand dunes takes skill.

Thanks to Deity for her great idea of a looser type of Diplo which has worked so well.

I reckon that every one of us deserves congratulations for having played for so many months without any sour words spoiling the game we collectively showed that Deity's idea of no rules but that it would be 'based on the quality and integrity of players' actually worked!

Big thanks to Ozzy for the map. I spent a long time at the start fuming over it and how imbalanced it was but it actually fitted this strange 'combo' game superbly. It forced people to do things they that they might never have chosen, me certainly, and it made diplomacy essential as none of us could survive without trade.

Thanks to Robert for, yet again, hosting and to all for a great fun game!

Where am I going to find the next PitBoss?

[bamf226]

congrats to Egypt. I was really surprised to see the game was over.


Not sure how I dropped anonymity, but I few of you knew I was Mongolia. Not my best game, but it was interesting. I'm going to take some time off to learn Civ V.

[mzprox]

Thanks and congrats everyone, especially to those who stayed to the end

I have no illusion that you could had stopped me if you really tried, even with this late attack you almost managed- tough it needed that i got extremly unlucky with the rolls. A one or two more nuke hits could had given you enough time to send your spies into my last city and keep it in revolt untill you need it. I expected that you would eventually attack me.. not from Rome or Sumeria tough..

[The Priest]

(Babylon/Hindustan)

Congratulations Mzprox!

Very, well played - both you diplomatic skills and your technical civ-skills.

I think I'm flattered that lots of people had other, extremely well established, players as Babylon. I'll take that as a compliment. Smiling at the fact that people thought I was Gondor/Bzyantium because he was playing such a thoughtful, balanced, diplomatic game which apparently (i'm flattered) was like me in DoE. Shame I've turned into a fanatical stubbon murder since. :-)

Regarding my almost DV. The basic truth is that everything Egypt ever said was absolutely true. We hovered on the edge of DV for centuries. Interesting that his oringal invasoin of me wasn't acutally motivated by the DV but by basic power politics (as I asserted, while lying about the fact that a DV was close) but sadly for me he did a good job of persuading others it was about the DV. Well done mz. In the end though DV requires someone else to vote with you, however many votes you have yourself, and it was hard to get that to happen when people din't feel it was the 'end game' yet.

The war was great fun. I presumed that I was absolutely toast. No oil (no oil in the territory of the Babylonians, Vikings and Celts nor offshore in that hemisphere! - ozzy my favourite voodoo doll!), facing a technologically superior foe with oil. How do you defend against bombers when you don't have oil or SAMs, and against destroyers and transports with frigates? Thought it was hopeless, and so adopted a fatalism thinking 'well you might as well have some fun as you go', but it didn't quite work out that way. Great fun of a sort you can never get against the AI. And any suggestions that mz' generals were incompetent were Babylonian lies! Fatalism is lots of fun. The martyrdom operations were really enjoyable - once you have decided you are going to go, its intriguing to work out how to take as many opponents with you.

If only Sumeria had been willing in ages past to work together against Egypt. If only Hindstan hadn't been so stubborn caught up in their fanatacism.

All praise to the Deertbrain, no, I mean the Desertliar, no I mean ...

[Robert]

Game's officially down now.
Forever.