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  • The end-game politics from Rome's perspective;

    First of all, Rome has suffered 2 major hits in history.
    The first one was after the 1st and 2nd Roman/Egyptian war, which costed us a lot.
    The 2nd one was after the.... 3rd Roman/Egyptian war, where Egypt invaded me and I had to draft the hell out of all my people.

    Then Rome needed time.
    I picked the path of corporations, which was very successful.
    I was able to found 4 corporations in 1 city, which was also my religious shrine.
    Only missed Sid's Sushi by 1 or 2 turns. (But got cereal mills instead)
    I spread 3 corporations to all of my cities (only al co was hardly spreaded).
    My HQ city got about 1400 gold per turn in the end.

    So all my aim was to spread all corporations everywhere in my land and become filthy rich and productive.
    So all I needed was time, time and time. I had the (perhaps insane) believe that on the long term Rome could match itself again with the big nations (effectively all other nations except Mongolia, sorry bamf )

    This worked quite ok, to be honest.
    At the end I had the 2nd commercial output and the 2nd production output of the world. (and two different nations being the #1 in both categories).
    I also succeeded in growing a large army inquite a short time, surpassing Sumeria already, on the long term (say, 50 more turns) my army might have become one of the biggest as well.

    But then those pesky Hindustani started to spoil stuff and were close to a CV!
    I could see it happening very easily. So I fully supported Egypt.
    When Egypt said he wasn't sure if he could do it alone and if I would join him, I immediately did it.
    I claimed the shrine city and some other cities, which expanded my commercial output even more. (all cities got all corporations of course).

    My only stupidity was my desire for more money, which made me sent my executives to Egypt! This helped them a lot to get the cultural victory! (despite the promise that he wouldn't use it 'against me') (which he did, giving me the only reason to declare war on Egypt in the end).
    The thing is that I was focussed so much on my goal (getting back to the top and stopping babylon from winning the game, I knew about the CV of Egypt (most probably the first) but thought it was too far away to be bothered about already.)

    Anyway, so I was allied with Egypt (Despite being best buddies with Gondor for most of the game! But I just believed that it was more important to have Egypt as an allie b/c Gondor wouldn't declare war on me anyway. (Gondor did almost declare war, I believe, b/c of my cultural expansion. but I was able to offer them my corporatoins at my expense to help them a bit) (same with sumeria, btw) (I think that it helped that both of them feared Egypt and that they did not really want war)

    Anyway, then I had this problem that Egypt was getting to the CV very soon, while I was their best friend! Oh horror!
    I feared that other nations would NOT invade Egypt to end the CV b/c they thought I would help Egypt. And it would be impossible to get to the Egyptian CV cities b/c of the Roman buffer. (where Egypt would fight as well of course).
    So I started to tell all big nations that I would not interfere with anybody who would try to stop Egypt from getting a CV (which was true! I did not want Egypt to in the CV! I even told Egypt that I would not support their CV, and would not defend them against an invasion to stop their CV, a couple of times earlier, but also that I would not actively try to stop them)

    So all nations got messages like: "You can attack Egypt, I will not stop you"

    to be continued (get visitors now)
    Formerly known as "CyberShy"
    Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

    Comment


    • But then they all responded that they were not going to attack Egypt!
      Cowards!
      And I didn't want Egypt to win either!!!

      So then I needed a reason to declare war on Egypt, in character.
      Fortunately Egypt had spread, against his promise, my cultural corporations into Thebes (which was pushing far into my territory, culturally!), so that was my reason to declare war.
      I told all civs, and then Sumeria jumped upon the bandwagon, who then also convinced Gondor to join.

      I kept inquiring Egypt how long it would take.
      Then he said '3 turns' and I was shocked! (didn't have the artists in mind). but still in time. I just had to login again during 'that' turn, but I failed to be home in time
      Then the next turn that 1 tile on the Egyptian border that I needed flipped to Egypt, so that I couldn't move my entire 105 units-stack into the fort next to his city. (I was too late then already anyway).

      Would I have been 1 turn earlier... then I would most probably still have failed, but I would also have had a better chance

      Anyway, I think it's been a great game.
      Too bad that my initial war on Egypt failed, too bad as well that Egypt DoW'ed me exactly when I had recovered from our first war. So most of the game I've been busy recovering.
      But maybe that's why Egypt was able to win, he did a very good job to contain Rome.

      Argh.

      Congrats!
      I'd like it to play another game like this!!
      Formerly known as "CyberShy"
      Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

      Comment


      • Ozzy: the map is superb!
        Especially b/c Rome didn't lack any strategical resource
        Oh well, I lacked stones, but I settled my first city that far away (see replay!) to get it anyway, which i needed for my great wall strategy game.

        But Rome had the disadvantage of having all neighbors
        I don't think no civ had more big neighbors then me.
        Ok, maybe Mongolia.....
        And rome had the disadvantage of having no shot at building colonies.
        So in the end I think it was quite a good map.

        I don't think that a good diplo map means that all civ start location are the same.
        It should just mean that every civ has a chance for a good game (thus not a tundra start, etc!)

        Thanks Ozzy!
        Also for the extensive subbing you did for Rome!
        Formerly known as "CyberShy"
        Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

        Comment


        • Tundra starts can be good too! The Vikes had a lot of resources, they should have just expanded south more. But yea, I'm glad you liked the map.
          Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

          Comment


          • Well Done all for this great game, I really enjoyed it as well!!!! Months of GREAT FUN.

            I HAVE A SON, his name is TONY as well I will post some pics soon. Robert, Dani says hi as well


            I had no idea that Priest was Babylon oh my!! lol Thought that he was playing Sumeria.

            You all played a superb game guys

            Comment


            • Deity we could have changed the world if we weren't so nice

              Comment


              • I HAVE A SON, his name is TONY as well


                Congrats!
                But.... your name is tonI and his name is tonY

                Just to add to the joy: Nelleke and me are expecting a 3rd kid!
                Formerly known as "CyberShy"
                Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

                Comment


                • Cyber/Rome, you can't believe what Gondor said. I wasn't going to admit that I was going to attack Egypt because I didn't trust you or Sumeria. So I was waiting for a fair opportunity (not when you attacked Babs though). I thought even though you said you would not support Egypt there was no trust for me to believe it. I wasn't going to leave my borders too unprotected. Once you attacked Egypt I was on my way but we got cut short by Desertbrain () turning a CV in 3 turns, was 15, to the VERY NEXT TURN!

                  I think Egypt's CV is testimony to Rome's failed diplomacy and siding with their ancient foe - I could never understand this (only Gondor kept borders closed with Egypt after their failed attack against Rome where Russia and Gondor allied with you). If you'd kept a strong trusting alliance with Gondor then things would be different.

                  I always thought you were The Priest so I said to myself, "That figures, just typical of that slippery swine!!!" LOL

                  But YOU! CYBERSHY, tut tut!!

                  And Toni, You weren't always there (now I know why!!!!) so I couldn't always count on Russia to cover me. If you had been there I would have gone for Memphis but you pushed me to attack Sumeria SO MUCH and I couldn;t see the need until he was close to a points victory:

                  In order of winners that needed to be stopped was:

                  1) Hindustani's and their DV - sorry The Priest, I was only stringing you along about voting for you to get resources Although I would have voted if Gondor was going under...

                  2) Egypt and CV

                  3) Whoever was next most likely but I wasn't going to betray Russia and would have voted for their justifiable in Gondor's eyes DV

                  Sumeria can VERY CLOSE to a Gondor attack but it wasn't recently when all those Russian forces came to Rohan... THAT was for a major attack on Rome! The VERY turn that Russia and Gondor was about to take out Cumae etc etc... that bloody POM (D) built MH!!!! Stardust and Stridfer logged in together on that turn ready to launch a coordinated attack on Rome and as I logged in Stardust said "WE'RE FVCKED! Damn MH." So we pulled back from that idea and sunsequently (I think it was after that) Rome helped re-balance Rohan's culture to ease tensions. Rome seemed to be aware of these tensions but did you know that Russia and Gondor were going to fully assault you? he he

                  In the end Sumeria and Rome did cushion Egypt and made it very hard for us to attack them. I thought you'd turn around, keep open borders with Egypt and launch attacks on Gondor...

                  so the Egypt CV was assured and it's only because mz revealed how close he was that Sumeria and Rome finally attacked Egypt.

                  My take on it.

                  Yes, we need another game like this. The map contributed greatly to the game and as St Jon said this group proved that rules weren't needed - the concept worked because our shared integrity!

                  I was impressed greatly by St Jon's efforts but unlike others (!!!) I knew from the way he played Inca in DoC that he had it in him - he is actually a total warmonger but continues to disguise this fact. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could kick him!

                  And Cybershy, you rock. Your mastery of the game is incredible - I keep thinking back to you as India (?) in HOTW 5. You totally sucked

                  The Priest, it is SO good to have you on board as a regular now - you are such a brilliant player. Toni and I now have a friendly relationship thanks to you (YOU YOU backstabbing son of a... think Byzantine in DoC!)

                  mz, I've already praised and as I said I don't play SP so I used espionage in this game to study as best I could how this guy works and I learnt quite a few things.

                  Toni and Trev are incredible builders and old buddies from way way back - both have helped me hugely. Being an old man, not as old as St Jon though, I need all the help I can get! I think Toni has forgiven me for reacting over the top in BtP but 2009 was a VERY bad year for me ion RL - things improved considerably since then. I really love you guys and fully urge Trev to get more into the diplomacy side.

                  Speaking of diplo and posting, I think we need to rebalance this. In this game we got far too much posting from some (in a game where it was not required) and nothing from others. Even though this is highly creative and brilliant stuff (The Priest was so good I thought it was Cybershy!) I suggest for the next game we stick to ig and pyt contact only. You may disagree but I think keep the open creative role playing for the full diplo games like DoE.
                  "Old age and skill will overcome youth and treachery. "
                  *deity of THE DEITIANS*
                  icq: 8388924

                  Comment


                  • I had to make IC posts from the desertlord, because I wanted to attack Rome, but it would had been too unfair if I just attacked them without making myself an evil overlord (I was much stronger than rome then). Maybe Gondor and sumeria would had helped Rome anyway, but I wanted to make it sure.

                    To Rome's post: I did not invite Rome because I thought I could not win the war against Babylon alone, but I wanted him to stand on my side so one less thing to worry about+they could helped me to finish the war sooner. (I have promised most of Babylon to Rome, I was focused on my cultural victory anyway)
                    I wonder if Babylon knew that when we started to talk about peace I spotted the Russian army in gondor and they did not answer to pms and ingame messages. Me and Rome were sure that they are preapring for an attack.. So we had to make a peace in hurry.. I would had given up all the cities just to be able to retreat my troops already, but did not want to let Babylon know this
                    And rome saying that I broke my promise.. I asked you ingame, you did not answer.. I took it as a yes

                    One last thing about Sumeria: They were much like Babylon, a fast growing empire, but even weaker military and unlike babylon they were not surrounded by friends. I needed Sumeria to be a buffer zone between me and my enemies, but He was too weak then. So I annouinced my protection on them, and I think that helped to avoid invasion from america, maybe from Gondor. So it worked until suddenly they made defensive pact with Gondor.. I was quite mad.. I wanted them to kill each other not to become allies.
                    I worked hard to make others declare war on each other with no success.
                    In late game Russia finally decided to attack Sumeria. I'd had welcomed it but there was a problem: Russia might had captured big Sumerian cities and get enough votes (with the support of Gondor and maybe America) to win a DV. On the other hand I still wanted the others to kill each other so they wouldn't concentrate on my CV attempt. So I wanted to risk this war and supported russia's plan. Then Sumeria started to build the MP, Russia got scared and did not want the war anymore. Here came my proposition: I have found a way to take out the city with the manhattan project with a surprise attack (thanks to my culture I could had done it in the same turn of declaration of war), the plan included a fort, being finished in the same turn of declaration, loaded transports arriving and from those tranports 10+ modern armors, supported by bombers destroying the not yet finished Manhattan project.
                    We agreed, i started to do the preparations (it was during my 2nd war with Babylon), but It all went out of the window when sumeria finished the project despite his promise..
                    Too bad.. my plan was that Russia attacks sumeria, I as I promised take out Umma in the same turn., then offer peace to sumeria and join them against Russia . It would had been much fun. They may had refused my help but I don't think they would had liked a war both with me and russia.. and even if I get Sumeria as enemy I wanted to eliminate nukes from the game. Nukes were a threat tomy CV chances.
                    Last edited by mzprox; January 24, 2011, 14:39.

                    Comment


                    • Toni and Trev are incredible builders and old buddies from way way back - both have helped me hugely. Being an old man, not as old as St Jon though, I need all the help I can get! I think Toni has forgiven me for reacting over the top in BtP but 2009 was a VERY bad year for me ion R
                      All is forgiven Deity We know each others for now too long to hold such gridges between us. Same goes for Robert.

                      On a different topic. I miss the Aussie games by the way old mate (Good times)

                      I look forward for many more years of us playing together This goes for you Robert, Ozzy and the rest of the band Priest, Mz, Sir Jon and the quiet Trev.
                      Last edited by Toni; January 24, 2011, 18:26.

                      Comment


                      • Just to add to the joy: Nelleke and me are expecting a 3rd kid!
                        Well Done Robert (very happy for you), i still remember when you had your first child and had us pause our midnight session Diplo games so you can change some diapers Life is interesting, i just changed Tony's some mins ago.

                        Comment


                        • Congrats to Robert as well!!!
                          Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

                          Comment


                          • I updated the entry in the DiploFAQ. Please all verify that this information is all true:

                            Doom of the Diplomats
                            April 1, 2010 - January 22, 2011

                            Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword (Pitboss)
                            America (Lincoln) - trev
                            Byzantium (Justinian I) - deity
                            Russia (Peter) - Toni
                            Babylon (Hammarubi) - The Priest
                            Summeria (Gilgamesh) - St Jon
                            Egypt (Hatseputs) - mzprox
                            Mongolia (Genghis Khan) - bamf226
                            Rome (Augustus Caesar) - Robert Plomp
                            Celts (Boudica) - The_Aussie_Lurker (Marcus) (carved up by world and eliminated)
                            Vikings (Ragnar) - BranksDilly (carved up by world and eliminated)
                            Maya (Pacal II) - Pinchak (carved up by world and eliminated)
                            China (Qin Shi Huao) - Hercules (carved up by world and eliminated)
                            France (Napoleon) - lzPrst (carved up by world and eliminated)

                            Game winner: Egypt (mzprox) by Cultural Victory
                            Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                            When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

                            Comment


                            • ozzy, I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure China was Heraclitus (The Dr House avatar) - not Hercules.
                              "Old age and skill will overcome youth and treachery. "
                              *deity of THE DEITIANS*
                              icq: 8388924

                              Comment


                              • America (Lincoln) - trev
                                Byzantium (Justinian I) - deity played nation as Gondor
                                Russia (Peter) - Toni
                                Babylon (Hammarubi) - The Priest played nation as Hindustani
                                Summeria (Gilgamesh) - St Jon
                                Egypt (Hatseputs) - mzprox
                                Mongolia (Genghis Khan) - bamf226
                                Rome (Augustus Caesar) - Robert Plomp
                                Celts (Boudica) - The_Aussie_Lurker (Marcus) (carved up by world and eliminated)
                                Vikings (Ragnar) - BranksDilly (carved up by world and eliminated)
                                Maya (Pacal II) - Pinchak (carved up by world and eliminated)
                                China (Qin Shi Huao) - Hercules (carved up by world and eliminated)
                                France (Napoleon) - lzPrst (carved up by world and eliminated)
                                "Old age and skill will overcome youth and treachery. "
                                *deity of THE DEITIANS*
                                icq: 8388924

                                Comment

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