Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread VI]

[Robert]

Because they share a border. They're neighbours. It's much more likely that both nations have ties, will declare war on each other or help each other.
We create in fact one huge empire if Portugal and Wyandots are played by the same person.

[OzzyKP]

If we are going to have players adopt second civs, I think it is better to have a peaceful ally pick it up than someone who very well may be a rival. That should be obvious.

[St Jon]

Japan taking Portugal is little different from either Rome or Greece taking it.

You are not asking Japan to be balanced, fair and neutral what you are actually suggesting is that Japan should be schizophrenic!

If we have yet further In-Game Sub's then there is a serious danger of the whole thing becoming a mockery. I already know just about all the great schemes for victory and plans for betrayal, albeit most of them as Russia, but it is more than is healthy when coupled with an intimate knowledge of Meduian troop deployments and goals.

Only semi-valid solution I can see now is Portugal going to Jeroen. Best would be Khmer going back to Ozzy as they share a common agenda but as the lesser of the major powers involved maybe Jeroen's friend could take them. Spain can be given to anyone or kicked to AI as they make no difference.

I don't like any of it and repeat my suggestion that we just award the game to Rome and put this all to bed.

[Robert]

Japan is not a rival to Portugal in any way.

Jeroen has too much knowledge of secret big-continental politics, he should therefore not sub for Portugal.

Anyway, I'm not interested in making this a big argument, I'm fine with letting Wyandots sub for Portugal for the sake of the game and to end the argument only. It's a huge advantage for Portugal though.

[St Jon]

Will they do it?

Jeroen has too much knowledge of secret big-continental politics, he should therefore not sub for Portugal.

If that is so then how can he be considered for Khmer? This sounds a bit like it was a faite accompli from the start.

Why Wyandot should be a bigger advantage to Portugal than Japan sounds very odd.

You will scream 'paranoia' at me but Japan is a very good player so why would they have been a lesser advantage to Portugal?

Oh well, let us roll on. Am I to play this Khmer turn or not?

[Robert]

You play this turn for the Khmer.

Jeroen knows about big-continent stuff, not about meduian stuff, so he's no problem for Khmer.

Wyandats are a bigger advantage to Portugal b/c they share a border. Effectively Portugal + Wyondats have one big huge empire. Japan is on an island far from Portugal.

Ie. if a civ attacks Japan, Portugal can't help and if a civ attacks Portugal Japan can't help. Both civs being run by 1 player won't affect the game much.
But if someone attacks wyndots, portugal can easily help, and the other way around.

Ie. if the Romans want to attack the Wyandots then they have to cross Portuguese territory. That will take the Roman surprise away.

[Robert]

I have sent portugal's password to the Wyandots.
Russia: please inform Jeroen about the Khmer situation/passwords (Jeroen Schweitzer is the poly account)
Jeroen: please inform bjorn likewise about spain.

[Pitboss Natives]

The Wyandots have responded to Robert's PM. We would be very uncomfortable subbing for Portugal given our shared border region. Even though our two nations have always lived in peace and consider each other as freinds - it just feels wrong to us to control both nations.

[OzzyKP]

Someone has to do it... it'd be best of course if we could find an outside civ, but... we can't.

I think you are the best choice.

Right now we have two groups of civs, those who are very intwined with world politics and because of that it would be impossible for them to take over a civ as important as Portugal without being biased in someway, and those players who can't be counted on to play their own civ's turns, let alone a second one.

What about this... Jeroen switches to Khmer, as we discussed, and Bjorn takes over Portugal. Then St. Jon plays Spain. At least that way the two big powers, Portugal & Khmer have unique players.

[Pitboss Japan]

After some consideration i dont think me taking Portugal could work..

[Robert]

Thanks for considering, Wyandots and Japan. Too bad you can't sub.

Ozzy's idea is ok with me.

[Pitboss Rome]

I think that Ozzy's plan is a good one in the circumstances.

All of us know different bits of what we hope and or fear are international alliances and plots, although its hard to explain publicly without revealing those plots. Which means that there will always be grave doubts about any option which has one person controlling two civs, at least two world powers.

So teh only option is for Khmer and Portugal to be run by someone who does not run any other power. This could be (a) an existing person, leaving behind their civ and taking another one, or (b) a new person. In the case of (a) then that person's original civ needs either to be subbed for (so one person is running tow small civs) or a new person brought in to handle it.

Either of these work. (a) (e.g. spain taking over khmer) has the worry that they bring with them knowledge of diplomacy that the new nation shouldn't have. (b) brings a worry as to whether they are going to fit in and work well in game. However, as a complete newbie - i had never played a single turn of MP civ before starting as Rome - I do find the idea that we need a 'good' person for khmer/portugal and that means not a newbie, close to insulting since, by all accounts, I haven't been a complete strategic and tactical disaster.

So Ozzy's seems a good plan.

Finally, it is very frustrating that just when Rome is about to win , the next two players (old hands with big reputations) disappear. I have no doubt that there are real pressing personal reasons why they aren't able to play. It is just very unfortunate for the game to fall apart now after so long.

[St Jon]

Rome, will you please disable your bloody Firewall when logging into BtP!

[St Jon]

Thanks for considering, Wyandots and Japan. Too bad you can't sub.

Ozzy's idea is ok with me.

OK, fine with me just send me Spain's P/W and we move on.

[OzzyKP]

Ok, something is seriously ****ed up in the game. I need to verify something, but we may have to restart the turn.

Hmmm, maybe it'll be ok. I'm still looking into it.