Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[Robert]

There's no more fun then wage your war of total destruction near the end of the game!
Face it, you're not going to win this game, so have some utter fun! Slave/draft all your cities to size 6, find some friends and go for it! Leave a trail of destruction and die in honour!

Maybe you can find enough friends to finally destroy the Khmer together!
Why sit as a lame duck? All you meduian nations should join forces and get rid of those uberdominant khmer! kick them! go for it!

go for it

[Pitboss Khmer]

That's not quite what I meant...

[Robert]

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you! Unfortunately I can't undo what I wrote

[Robert]

Story	June	July	August	Sept	okt	nov	dec	jan	feb	Mar	Apr	Points
Greece 	21	16 (37)	12 (49)	15 (64)	10(74)	12(86)	22(108) 21(129)	10(139)	12(151)	11(162)	18
Korea	7	21 (28)	25 (53)	14 (67)	22(89)	9(98)	11(109) 15(124)	15(139)	0(139)	0(139)	17
Persia	10	15 (25)	10 (35)	6 (41)	9(50)	6(56)	2 (58)	13(71)	4(75)	0(75)	0(75)	16
Japan	16	7 (23)	11 (34)	6 (40)	18(58)	8(66)	0 (66)	2(68)	0(68)	0(68)	2(70)	15
Rome	2	0 (2)	9 (11)	4 (15)	5(20)	3(23)	9 (32)	4(36)	9(45)	8(53)	11(64)	14
Russia	5	0 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	2*(5)	0 (5)	5(10)	8(18)	16(34)	11(45)	13 +2
Vikings	11	5 (16)	14 (30)	8 (38)	5(43)	0(43)	0 (43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	12 -1
Maya	1	1 (2)	2 (4)	8 (12)	3(15)	8(20)	3 (23)	7(30)	2(32)	8(40)	1*(40)	11 -1
HRE	3*	1 (1)	0 (1)	2 (3)	0(3)	5(8)	13 (21)	4(25)	0(25)	0(25)	0(25)	10
Metal	8	2 (10)	4 (14)	1 (15)	0(15)	0(17)	6 (23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	9
Khmer	1	0 (1)	5 (6)	11 (17)	0(17)	0(17)	3 (20)	0(20)	0(20)	1(21)	0(21)	8
Spain	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	10(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	7
Port	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	0(2)	7(9)	0 (9)	1(10)	0(10)	0(10)	0(10)	6
Engla	0	0 (0)	4 (4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	5
Celts	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	3(3)	0(3)	0(3)	4
Natives	0	1 (1)	0 (1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	3
America	1*	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2


Diplomacy
Rome	8	16 (24)	16 (40)	7 (47)	12(59)	11(70)	5 (75)	3(78)	10(88)	18(106)	9(115)	18
Greece	7	1 (8)	4 (12)	0 (12)	16(28)	5(33)	8 (41)	11(52)	9(61)	7(68)	5(73)	17
Portu	3*	3*(0)	13 (13)	12 (25)	5(30)	12(42)	5 (47)	10(57)	4(61)	4(65)	7(72)	16
Korea	14	17 (31)	4 (35)	7 (42)	3(45)	3(48)	2 (50)	4(54)	9(63)	0(63)	0(63)	15
Khmer	5	2 (7)	3 (10)	5 (15)	11(26)	4(30)	10(40)	16(56)	2(58)	3(61)	6*(61)	14
Persia	2	11 (13)	6 (19)	12 (31)	8 (39)	10(49)	0 (49)	1(50)	0(50)	0(50)	0(50)	13
Maya	6	2 (8)	3 (11)	0 (11)	0(11)	4(15)	3 (18)	8(26)	5(31)	4(35)	1*(35)	12
HRE	0	0 (0)	2 (2)	2 (4)	3(7)	8(11)	9 (20)	9(29)	2*(29)	0(29)	0(29)	11
Japan	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	6(14)	0(14)	1 (15)	2(17)	0(17)	7(24)	3(27)	10 +1
Natives	3	6 (9)	10 (19)	6 (25)	4*(25)	1(26)	1*(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	1*(26)	9 -1
Russia	1	5*(1)	2* (1)	0 (1)	2(3)	0(3)	0 (3)	6(9)	7(16)	6(22)	3(25)	8
Vikings	5	3 (8)	8 (16)	3 (19)	3(22)	0(22)	0 (22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	7 -1
Metal	7	0 (7)	0 (7)	0 (7)	0(7)	0(7)	1 (8)	0(8)	4(12)	1(13)	1(14)	6
Spain	0	3 (3)	1 (4)	3 (7)	5(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	1(13)	0(13)	0(13)	5 -1
Celts	0	5 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	5 (10)	1(11)	0(11)	0(11)	0(11)	4
england 1	1 (2)	5 (7)	2 (9)	2*(9)	2*(9)	12*(9)	1*(9)	0(9)	0(9)	0(9)	3
America	3*	0 (0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	2(2)	4 (6)	2(8)	0(8)	0(8)	0(8)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	1


Military
Rome	5	4 (9)	25 (34)	18 (52)	7(59)	18(77)	23(100)	18(118)	4(122)	4(126)	10(136)	18
Greece	0	4 (4)	3 (7)	6 (13)	2(15)	7(22)	12 (34)	1(35)	4(39)	18(57)	12(69)	17 +1
Maya	21	7 (28)	5 (33)	1 (34)	0(34)	13(47)	8 (55)	0(55)	8(63)	3(66)	1*(66)	16 -1
Russia	0	4*(0)	6* (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	7*(0)	0 (0)	12(12)	4(16)	16(32)	7(39)	15
HRE	5*	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	4(5)	14 (18)	13(31)	0(31)	0(31)	0(31)	14
Korea	9	0 (9)	3 (12)	0 (12)	2(14)	0(14)	0 (14)	0(14)	14(28)	0(28)	0(28)	13
Japan	0	9 (9)	3 (12)	5 (17)	8(25)	0(25)	0 (25)	0(25)	0(25)	1(26)	2(28)	13 +1
Vikings	0	14 (14)	7 (21)	0 (21)	5(26)	2*(26)	0 (26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	11 -1
Persia	3	3 (6)	9 (15)	4 (19)	0(19)	2(21)	3 (24)	0(24)	2(26)	0((26)	0((26)	11 -1
Khmer	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	3 (3)	18(21)	0(21)	0(21)	2*(21)	9
Metal	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	0(8)	0(8)	4 (12)	1(13)	0(13)	1(14)	0(14)	8
Portug	2*	3*(0)	4 (4)	1 (5)	5(10)	0(10)	0 (10)	0(10)	2(12)	1(13)	0(13)	7
Celts	0	0 (0)	3 (3)	0 (3)	0(3)	1(4)	2 (6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	6
America	0	0 (0)	5 (5)	6*(5)	5*(5)	0(5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	5
Natives 0	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	4
Spain 	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
England	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3

April 2009 score:

Position			Story	Diplo	Mili	Score	Total	Voted		Dif
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
01. (01)(01)(01) Rome		14(--)	18(--)	18(--)	17(+1)	67(+1)	xxxxxxxxxxx	--
01. (01)(02)(02) Greece		18(--)	17(--)	17(+1)	15(--)	67(+1)	xxxxxxxxxxx	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03. (07)(12)(12) Russia		13(+2)	08(--)	15(--)	13(+2)	49(+4)	x---x--xxxx	+4
04. (04)(04)(08) Korea		17(--)	15(--)	13(--)	03(--)	48(--)	xxxxxxxx---	--
05. (04)(05)(03) Khmer		08(--)	14(--)	09(--)	16(-1)	47(-1)	xxxxxxxxxx-	-1
05. (06)(07)(06) Portug		06(--)	16(--)	07(--)	18(--)	47(--)	--xxxxxxxxx	+1
05. (07)(06)(06) HRE		10(--)	11(--)	14(--)	12(+2)	47(+2)	-xxxxxxx---	+2
05. (07)(08)(10) Japan		15(--)	10(+1)	13(+1)	09(--)	47(+2)	xxxxxxxx-xx	+2
09. (03)(03)(03) Maya		11(-1)	12(--)	16(-1)	7(-7)	46(-9)	xxxxxxxxxx-	-6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. (10)(08)(05) Persia		16(--)	13(--)	11(-1)	03(--)	43(-1)	xxxxxxxx---	--
11. (11)(10)(08) Vikings	12(-1)	07(-1)	11(-1)	10(+3)	40(--)	xxxxx------	--
12. (12)(11)(11) Metal		09(--)	06(--)	08(--)	14(+1)	37(+1)	xxxx--xxxxx	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. (13)(13)(12) Spain		07(--)	05(-1)	03(--)	11(-1)	26(-2)	xxxxx---x--	--
14. (14)(14)(14) Natives	03(--)	09(-1)	04(--)	06(-2)	22(-3)	xx-x-------	--
14. (15)(15)(15) Celts		04(--)	04(--)	06(--)	08(+2)	22(+2)	xxxxxxxxxx-	+1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. (16)(16)(17) England	05(--)	03(--)	03(--)	04(--)	15(--)	xxxx-------	--
17. (17)(17)(16) America	02(--)	02(--)	05(--)	05(--)	14(--)	-xx--xxx---	--
18. (18)(18)(18) Inca		02(--)	01(--)	03(--)	03(--)	09(--)	-----------	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Pitboss Khmer]

I just voted, sorry.

[Pitboss Russia]

What do the *'s mean next to the pts?

Most of us are still going to be beaten by dead Civ's! LOL

[Robert]

* indicates that that civ didn't vote that round and the points aren't counted.

[Robert]

Updated score list, recalculated after I received another vote.
Now only Celts and Spain, out of the 'regular voters' did not vote.

I think celts are away, they get a chance to vote later.
Spain, if you can cast your votes soon then I'll include hem.

Story	June	July	August	Sept	okt	nov	dec	jan	feb	Mar	Apr	Points
Greece 	21	16 (37)	12 (49)	15 (64)	10(74)	12(86)	22(108) 21(129)	10(139)	12(151)	13(165)	18
Korea	7	21 (28)	25 (53)	14 (67)	22(89)	9(98)	11(109) 15(124)	15(139)	0(139)	0(139)	17
Persia	10	15 (25)	10 (35)	6 (41)	9(50)	6(56)	2 (58)	13(71)	4(75)	0(75)	0(75)	16
Japan	16	7 (23)	11 (34)	6 (40)	18(58)	8(66)	0 (66)	2(68)	0(68)	0(68)	2(70)	15
Rome	2	0 (2)	9 (11)	4 (15)	5(20)	3(23)	9 (32)	4(36)	9(45)	8(53)	12(65)	14
Russia	5	0 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	2*(5)	0 (5)	5(10)	8(18)	16(34)	13(47)	13 +2
Vikings	11	5 (16)	14 (30)	8 (38)	5(43)	0(43)	0 (43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	12 -1
Maya	1	1 (2)	2 (4)	8 (12)	3(15)	8(20)	3 (23)	7(30)	2(32)	8(40)	1*(40)	11 -1
HRE	3*	1 (1)	0 (1)	2 (3)	0(3)	5(8)	13 (21)	4(25)	0(25)	0(25)	0(25)	10
Metal	8	2 (10)	4 (14)	1 (15)	0(15)	0(17)	6 (23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	9
Khmer	1	0 (1)	5 (6)	11 (17)	0(17)	0(17)	3 (20)	0(20)	0(20)	1(21)	0(21)	8
Spain	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	10(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	7
Port	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	0(2)	7(9)	0 (9)	1(10)	0(10)	0(10)	0(10)	6
Engla	0	0 (0)	4 (4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	5
Celts	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	3(3)	0(3)	0(3)	4
Natives	0	1 (1)	0 (1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	3
America	1*	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2


Diplomacy
Rome	8	16 (24)	16 (40)	7 (47)	12(59)	11(70)	5 (75)	3(78)	10(88)	18(106)	9(115)	18
Portu	3*	3*(0)	13 (13)	12 (25)	5(30)	12(42)	5 (47)	10(57)	4(61)	4(65)	9(74)	17 +1
Greece	7	1 (8)	4 (12)	0 (12)	16(28)	5(33)	8 (41)	11(52)	9(61)	7(68)	5(73)	16 -1
Khmer	5	2 (7)	3 (10)	5 (15)	11(26)	4(30)	10(40)	16(56)	2(58)	3(61)	6(67)	15 +1
Korea	14	17 (31)	4 (35)	7 (42)	3(45)	3(48)	2 (50)	4(54)	9(63)	0(63)	0(63)	14 -1
Persia	2	11 (13)	6 (19)	12 (31)	8 (39)	10(49)	0 (49)	1(50)	0(50)	0(50)	0(50)	13
Maya	6	2 (8)	3 (11)	0 (11)	0(11)	4(15)	3 (18)	8(26)	5(31)	4(35)	1*(35)	12
HRE	0	0 (0)	2 (2)	2 (4)	3(7)	8(11)	9 (20)	9(29)	2*(29)	0(29)	0(29)	11
Japan	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	6(14)	0(14)	1 (15)	2(17)	0(17)	7(24)	3(27)	10 +1
Natives	3	6 (9)	10 (19)	6 (25)	4*(25)	1(26)	1*(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	1*(26)	9 -1
Russia	1	5*(1)	2* (1)	0 (1)	2(3)	0(3)	0 (3)	6(9)	7(16)	6(22)	4(26)	9 +1
Vikings	5	3 (8)	8 (16)	3 (19)	3(22)	0(22)	0 (22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	7 -1
Metal	7	0 (7)	0 (7)	0 (7)	0(7)	0(7)	1 (8)	0(8)	4(12)	1(13)	4(17)	6
Spain	0	3 (3)	1 (4)	3 (7)	5(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	1(13)	0(13)	0(13)	5 -1
Celts	0	5 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	5 (10)	1(11)	0(11)	0(11)	0(11)	4
england 1	1 (2)	5 (7)	2 (9)	2*(9)	2*(9)	12*(9)	1*(9)	0(9)	0(9)	0(9)	3
America	3*	0 (0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	2(2)	4 (6)	2(8)	0(8)	0(8)	0(8)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	1


Military
Rome	5	4 (9)	25 (34)	18 (52)	7(59)	18(77)	23(100)	18(118)	4(122)	4(126)	12(128)	18
Greece	0	4 (4)	3 (7)	6 (13)	2(15)	7(22)	12 (34)	1(35)	4(39)	18(57)	15(72)	17 +1
Maya	21	7 (28)	5 (33)	1 (34)	0(34)	13(47)	8 (55)	0(55)	8(63)	3(66)	1*(66)	16 -1
Russia	0	4*(0)	6* (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	7*(0)	0 (0)	12(12)	4(16)	16(32)	7(39)	15
HRE	5*	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	4(5)	14 (18)	13(31)	0(31)	0(31)	0(31)	14
Korea	9	0 (9)	3 (12)	0 (12)	2(14)	0(14)	0 (14)	0(14)	14(28)	0(28)	0(28)	13
Japan	0	9 (9)	3 (12)	5 (17)	8(25)	0(25)	0 (25)	0(25)	0(25)	1(26)	2(28)	13 +1
Vikings	0	14 (14)	7 (21)	0 (21)	5(26)	2*(26)	0 (26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	11 -1
Persia	3	3 (6)	9 (15)	4 (19)	0(19)	2(21)	3 (24)	0(24)	2(26)	0((26)	0((26)	11 -1
Khmer	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	3 (3)	18(21)	0(21)	0(21)	2(23)	9
Metal	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	0(8)	0(8)	4 (12)	1(13)	0(13)	1(14)	0(14)	8
Portug	2*	3*(0)	4 (4)	1 (5)	5(10)	0(10)	0 (10)	0(10)	2(12)	1(13)	1(14)	8 +1
Celts	0	0 (0)	3 (3)	0 (3)	0(3)	1(4)	2 (6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	6
America	0	0 (0)	5 (5)	6*(5)	5*(5)	0(5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	5
Natives 0	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	4
Spain 	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
England	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3

April 2009 score:

Position			Story	Diplo	Mili	Score	Total	Voted		Dif
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
01. (01)(01)(01) Rome		14(--)	18(--)	18(--)	17(+1)	67(+1)	xxxxxxxxxxx	--
02. (01)(02)(02) Greece		18(--)	16(-1)	17(+1)	15(--)	66(--)	xxxxxxxxxxx	-1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03. (07)(12)(12) Russia		13(+2)	09(+1)	15(--)	13(+2)	50(+5)	x---x--xxxx	+4
04. (06)(07)(06) Portug		06(--)	17(+1)	08(+1)	18(--)	49(+2)	--xxxxxxxxx	+2
05. (04)(05)(03) Khmer		08(--)	15(+1)	09(--)	16(-1)	48(--)	xxxxxxxxxxx	-1
06. (04)(04)(08) Korea		17(--)	14(-1)	13(--)	03(--)	47(-1)	xxxxxxxx---	-2
06. (07)(06)(06) HRE		10(--)	11(--)	14(--)	12(+2)	47(+2)	-xxxxxxx---	+1
06. (07)(08)(10) Japan		15(--)	10(+1)	13(+1)	09(--)	47(+2)	xxxxxxxx-xx	+1
09. (03)(03)(03) Maya		11(-1)	12(--)	16(-1)	7(-7)	46(-9)	xxxxxxxxxx-	-6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. (10)(08)(05) Persia		16(--)	13(--)	11(-1)	03(--)	43(-1)	xxxxxxxx---	--
11. (11)(10)(08) Vikings	12(-1)	07(-1)	11(-1)	10(+3)	40(--)	xxxxx------	--
12. (12)(11)(11) Metal		09(--)	06(--)	08(--)	14(+1)	37(+1)	xxxx--xxxxx	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. (13)(13)(12) Spain		07(--)	05(-1)	03(--)	11(-1)	26(-2)	xxxxx---x--	--
14. (14)(14)(14) Natives	03(--)	09(-1)	04(--)	06(-2)	22(-3)	xx-x-------	--
14. (15)(15)(15) Celts		04(--)	04(--)	06(--)	08(+2)	22(+2)	xxxxxxxxxx-	+1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. (16)(16)(17) England	05(--)	03(--)	03(--)	04(--)	15(--)	xxxx-------	--
17. (17)(17)(16) America	02(--)	02(--)	05(--)	05(--)	14(--)	-xx--xxx---	--
18. (18)(18)(18) Inca		02(--)	01(--)	03(--)	03(--)	09(--)	-----------	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[St Jon]

Funglish Played a Turn!!!

[Pinchak]

You know Portugal and Khmer, if you two joined forces and decimated filthy Rome and Greece that would cause their ingame score to drop, which would put you guys at the top of the overall score.

Just something to consider....

[Pitboss Rome]

I love you too

[Robert]

1. if Rome/Sparta drop to the bottom of the scorelist, we still have more general points then Portugal/Khmer
2. Portugal/Khmer won't be able to beat Sparta/Rome
3. why don't you come back, you were a worthy competitor! We didn't touch Maya at all since you moved your last turn!
4. sssssst

[Pitboss Greece]

good find on that counter-video, Russia

[Pitboss Khmer]

You know Portugal and Khmer, if you two joined forces and decimated filthy Rome and Greece that would cause their ingame score to drop, which would put you guys at the top of the overall score.

Just something to consider....

WE do miss you, yes.

But what this game needed was for our alliance to grow strong - that was potentially a good game dynamic (and there aren't many of those left). But I think you like to stand too much alone but you do need to trust a few civs and work on the diplomacy. Khmer, Metals and HRE were very sympathetic to many Mayan views.

Once you called me on the corporations thing saying that you were testing me, I drifted away from you.

Metals and Khmer are sharing corporations to mutual benefit but I don't think you understood that approach which ruined some of your diplomacy (plus the making of unfounded accusations etc etc )

You are a brilliant asset to the game but maybe you need some sort of operation

[Pitboss Khmer]

good find on that counter-video, Russia

You continue to be a total nut Cyber

God knows where you find the time to do this, run a website, work, be a father, husband... etc etc !!