Sigh.... Still no word on another patch.

[EternalSpark]

I'm curious, why does MP desperately need a patch? Wouldn't everyone be playing the most up-to-date version? Or is that one of the problems?

[Wiglaf]

Instead of being coy, guys, you could actually explain why the game is so broken. Missing tooltips on your dinky espionage slider don't cut it I'm afraid. You just want EVERYTHING to be PERFECT and it never will be, so you will want patches 10 years from now. Let's move on.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Instead of being coy, guys, you could actually explain why the game is so broken. Missing tooltips on your dinky espionage slider don't cut it I'm afraid. You just want EVERYTHING to be PERFECT and it never will be, so you will want patches 10 years from now. Let's move on.

If there was no need for another patch, why was Bhruic's fixes made in the first place? Are you trying to say that the 3.13 patch left the game absolutely perfect? Basically all we want is an official patch that does what Bhuric's does and maybe fixes a few more minor glitches here and there. We shouldn't have to rely on a third party effort to fix was still left broken with the last patch, or had become broken because of it. That's Firaxis' job. And there's a few things that Bhruic's patch doesn't address, like the lag that occurs whenever a screen opens up. I had to resort to turning off the background during movies in order to get my screens responding the way they did in vanilla and Warlords.

[Wiglaf]

None of Bruhic's fixes are game changing. None of the bugs just cry out for an immediate fix. There will always be minor bugs, it's just the way it is. The game's from 2005, it's now 2008, you can't honestly expect patches for years and years.

[Willem]

Originally posted by EternalSpark
I'm curious, why does MP desperately need a patch? Wouldn't everyone be playing the most up-to-date version? Or is that one of the problems?

Yes, that is the problem. The last patch left some things still broken and actually broke a few things in the process. So you either play with the last official patch and put up with the bugs or use Bhruic's unofficial patch. But that creates an inconsistency with trying to play MP.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
None of Bruhic's fixes are game changing. None of the bugs just cry out for an immediate fix. There will always be minor bugs, it's just the way it is. The game's from 2005, it's now 2008, you can't honestly expect patches for years and years.

The fact that you can't create a corporation when using Mercantilism is a major bug that needs fixing. As is the fact that a newly formed colony can cause an automatic declaration of war with it and the master civ. If you're not aware of these bugs, then obviously you don't know the game very well.

[Wiglaf]

I know the game better than 99% of the people who bought it, and it's obscene to expect Firaxis to whore its resources to the 0.5% that notices these things.

The colony issue rarely comes up since colonies rarely come up. And the mercantilism issue is good for balance.

[EternalSpark]

If there was no need for another patch, why was Bhruic's fixes made in the first place?

I would argue that the existence of a fan-created patch isn't necessarily proof that an official patch is required.

Granted, the fixes of Bhruic's are significant, but so are the fixes in the latest fan-made patch for Planescape: Torment or That Unsurprisingly Unsuccessful Vampire Game From Troika That I Can't Remember The Name Of.

Both games are by-and-large playable without any fan-made patch, but the fanbase has the time and energy to try and 'fix' every little niggling thing.

With the exception of MP (which I'm still curious why there's a problem, if everyone is using the last official version), I would argue that Civ IV is a lot like that. Sure, there's some problems, but overall it's very very good, bug wise.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
The colony issue rarely comes up since colonies rarely come up.

It can still be game breaking when it does, which qualifies it as a bug that needs fixing.

And the mercantilism issue is good for balance.

Maybe that's your opinion but that's not how the game is supposed to work. And it limits the options of players far too much. That means that Free Market is the only viable civic if you intend to run your own corporation leaving you wide open to foreign corporations coming in and crippling your economy. It's not supposed to be an all or nothing feature in the game and that bug effectively breaks the whole concept of corporations.

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
The colony issue rarely comes up since colonies rarely come up. And the mercantilism issue is good for balance.

And How many MP games have YOU played so far Wiggy?

IMO, this can has a direct effect on MP games.

[Wiglaf]

Anyone who routinely uses colonies is a bad Civ player who needs a patch for their brain more than the game. They are rare. And what is this about me playing the game? I rarely do , but it is hard for me to see how one botched civic choice can be so devastating. At least admit the game is still very playable.

[Wittlich]

Wiggy, you forget one of the "features" of Civ-BtS - The abilty to utilize colonies. Quite frankly, it needs to be tweaked (granted, I will allow you the stance that it is not totally broken - but on the same line of reasoning, it does not do what it is supposed to do, hense the crux of the situation).

Besides, founding a colony or not is not a civic choice but rather a feature within the game.

[Wiglaf]

I was referring to the broken mercantilism argument when I said civic choice. And I agree they should fix the colonies issue and the other minor issues, but I am just hard pressed to say the whole thing is broken because of that.

Can't all MP players get the unofficial patch and play?

[Wittlich]

Actually, I concur with you Wiglaf (the whole thing is definately NOT broken)...but all MP players will not install an unoffical patch...since, well, it is unofficial. This is the problem.

The MP community needs a standard and that has always been to only play MP games with "official" patch releases, which helps allieviate shady players hosting a modified game which allows them an unfair advantage.

So the whole gaming standard for the MP community basically relies on the release of "official" patches for the gaming community's continuity...without it, there would be inconsistancy and chaos.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
...but I am just hard pressed to say the whole thing is broken because of that.

No one is saying the game is broken, only that there are some things that need to be fixed. And some of those things were broken by the last patch itself, like the inability to see how much culture a building is producing. We need another patch just to fix those things and make the game work like it used to.

Can't all MP players get the unofficial patch and play?

As Wittlich mentioned, not everyone agrees with using an unofficial patch. I've seen discussions on this with people being leery of adding anything other than that released by Firaxis, sometimes out of paranoia of a virus or sometimes feeling that it might imbalance their game. And there are alot of people who don't hang out at forums like this who may not even realize that there is an unofficial patch.