"Civilization IV"... Confirmed?

[ThePlagueRat]

Any new screenies lately?

[Nikolai]

Not that I've seen.

[ThePlagueRat]

Hmm... I did a google search. Could not find any either.
Why? they are making the game now and they have an alpha by now, right?

[General Ludd]

There where screenshots in a magazine a while back.

[Nikolai]

Yeah, but that's old news. We saw them already in December you know.

[ThePlagueRat]

Yeah, and those were totally lame.
Certainly there will be need for a graphic mod if they are going to stick with that. So, why cant they post regular screenies like paradox does when they are developing a game? Instead they serve us those crappy magazine scans...

[alva]

Some news: Not sure if it's worthy for a news item though.

http://www.firaxis.com/behindscenes/sidjeff.php

Meanwhile, Sid Meier's Civilization IV continues to progress quite nicely. The gameplay is really beginning to click, the 3D graphics are nothing short of spectacular, and the multiplayer game is coming together faster than we expected. We've also been doing a lot of work on the game's internal architecture to allow for easy player-modification (mods) using the industry-standard Python and XML programs, and we confidently expect you folks to come up with some great new maps, scenarios, units and even entire civs!

[ThePlagueRat]

Look, I didn't find screenies but I expect them to be posted on this site one day:

http://www.firaxis.com/games/game_detail.php?gameid=6

Coming Soon
Screen shots and design commentary from the Sid Meier's Civilization IV team!

So we'll just have to wait and see... Hope for the best!

[Toby Rowe]

Hi Snoopy and Boris.

Snoopy- We'll have to disagree about Alpha Centuri, I thought it an awful game- You liked it.

The cheating I was referring to in Civ 3 seems to have taken a step backwards compared to 1 & 2.

In the previous versions the AI made it quite clear when it cheated, to leave you without any illusions as to the current state of play; eg "The Russians exchanged Masonry with the Egyptians for Pottery" then "The Egyptians exchanged Masonry for Map making with...." etc.

My simple point was rather than the Civ 3 programmers viewing the obvious cheats in the first two, they would try to eliminate as many by producing a credible AI. Instead they actually added many cheats, whilst removing the info the AI gave us in little messages when it engaged in cheating- That gentlemen is a backward step.

I was quite shocked to see the defeatist attitude Snoopy has about the limits of AI, I consider Civ to be one of the most highly structured games ever made, making a decent AI far easier to achieve I would have thought.

In RRT3 new industries appear and the AI has to adjust the entire economic model for it, whilst in Civ 3, you have 4 fast attacking units, 4 defensive units, One type of settlement and one type of worker unit.

This is the basis for all board interaction.

What you get is silent cheating on technology, your troop dispositions throughout the map, including non-garrisoned military and workers, attacks on submarines- In other words, the AI knows everything about your nation, before it attacks- and rest assured, some moronic nation on the opposite side of the map will spend 30 turns sending troops to you in order to attack you- for no reason whatsoever, and completely ignoring the good relations you previously enjoyed over the 2000 years since you discovered each other.

What is that all about?

Good AI makes a good game, bad AI makes a bad one.

Toby

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
My simple point was rather than the Civ 3 programmers viewing the obvious cheats in the first two, they would try to eliminate as many by producing a credible AI. Instead they actually added many cheats, whilst removing the info the AI gave us in little messages when it engaged in cheating- That gentlemen is a backward step.

What cheats did the civ3 AI have other than seeing the map?

[Toby Rowe]

Mate,

Try reading my last sentence in the post.

[ThePlagueRat]

A crap AI has nothing to say if you only play MP. In Civ3 I found the AI so bad that I ended up only using it for MP games...

And for the MP Civ3 turned out pretty good, but not before 2 expansion packs. Now that's sad! However, today it's very fun playing on ladder league and using MP-mods etc. If Firaxis is serious about the SP play in Civ4, they will make a better AI than Civ3.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe Try reading my last sentence in the post.

Um... how about you read notyoueither's question and answer it instead...
What cheats are there besides the AI seeing the map?

[Toby Rowe]

Hi mate,

I simply can't see the post you are referring too, but I remember his name.

Look mate, if the AI can see the location of all your worker units, the garrisons of every city you have, even every city you have, this allows for the great AI rush we are used to seeing, along with the capturing of your civilian worker units. It also knows the location of all your naval units, including submarines. What else is left in Civ 3?- diplomacy only, which is an utter joke in this game.

I'd say, never give your territory map away, unless you are able to defend it, once a single nation has it, they all do, and then the cheating begins.

Now, if I'm not mistaken, as the entire game is played on the map; the enemy knowing your entire dispositions makes for a very, very poor AI. The map is a mystery to you alone- to the AI it knows everything about you. and the map once it knows all Civ's.

In Civ 3 you are effectively alone against a collective of other nations, if you don't consider this poor AI then god help future games if Infogrammes' idea of AI becomes the norm.

Toby

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
Hi mate,

I simply can't see the post you are referring too, but I remember his name.

Look mate, if the AI can see the location of all your worker units, the garrisons of every city you have, even every city you have, this allows for the great AI rush we are used to seeing, along with the capturing of your civilian worker units. It also knows the location of all your naval units, including submarines. What else is left in Civ 3?- diplomacy only, which is an utter joke in this game.

I'd say, never give your territory map away, unless you are able to defend it, once a single nation has it, they all do, and then the cheating begins.

Now, if I'm not mistaken, as the entire game is played on the map; the enemy knowing your entire dispositions makes for a very, very poor AI. The map is a mystery to you alone- to the AI it knows everything about you. and the map once it knows all Civ's.

In Civ 3 you are effectively alone against a collective of other nations, if you don't consider this poor AI then god help future games if Infogrammes' idea of AI becomes the norm.

Toby

HI.
Jeff told us a long time ago that yes the AI know all but because of the Fog of War, can not go directly to your city, until he (AI) removes the Fog of War. So the AI must explore just like we do. Now after he uncovers a way to come after you, watch out .