Custom Race- Best Stats?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by originalbork
VXMA,

I am ordering the CD today. Your should have changed production from a CS to an OP after you realized that the CS did not open any new systems to you.

Don't worry about the darloks. All you need is a couple appropriately outfitted BB's.

BP RH AE and then mirv nukes make sure you have chaff so that your expensive missiles don't get hit. The only other ship you will need is a frig with BP and aug eng.

I guess I could do an F9 and see if an OP will allow me to reach anything from Adib or not. If so, then back up prior to t50 and switch the second CS to OP, otherwise, just proceed to do it now.
If none in reach here, I would think do the Cells after AF.
So you would take the AE over the drive here.
You prefer a missile BB over a beamer, what is the chaff you would use, 4 nukes with HV and FST? The others with ECM, if you have it at that time and MV HV FST?
One slot for the chaff and one for all the ohers or multiple for the business ones?
I am guessing we do not have fast racks at this time.

[bakalov]

Hi, everybody .... Vmxa, I played the game that you suggested.

I did not use the other planets in the starting system. Actually I never built other colony from my starting race (I am posting some saves). I am sure that I could have done it better but it was late in the night and I was almost half asleep :-). I won by conquest at turn 222. If I played better then I could have done it by say, t200.

A brief log:
t0 - sold my starbase... yeah, a bit risky...
t12 built research labs
t13 hired gizmo
t19 hired yota
t22 built AF
t25 built hydroponics
t36 built soil
t40 built cloning
t60 built supercomputer
t67 holo simulator
t72 spaceport
t78 robo miners
t81 biospheres
t94 researched iridium, and contacted the klackons, at last :-) rebuilt my starbase
t101 hired Khunagg
t108 got Zortrium, nano, microlite, Now my homeworld is producing 200 :-)
t118 hired chug - for the terraforming and my first missile boat is ready
t144 the klackon is dead .... killed it only by the missile boat ...
Followed by the human, mrrshan, silicoid.
Then sakkra, trilarian and the darlok simultaneously (the sakkras surendered to trilar in the process)

Actually the weapon that I used till the end was mass driver and lots of force field technology - look at the last save - I am with Class V shield. My missile boat was killed by some plasma fighters because I wanted to fire the second volley of missiles in one battle - a bit stupid for that situation - that was the only ship that I lost ... May be I should have refitted it but as I say I didn't played my best in that game.

The other tech that I researched a lot were the better drives ...

Anyway it was VERY easy to beat, even with one of my eyes already sleeping :-)

[bakalov]

I saw your discussion here - is it an effort to play the same situation with another race? or just another game?

[vmxa1]

Bakalov, like you say it is late, so I will look at it tomorrow, thanks.
My goal in these two games was to see if it could be shown that they were winable with those races. If so, then, I felt they were poor enough starts to make the case that those races played as thier advocates suggest are going to always win in SP.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by bakalov
I saw your discussion here - is it an effort to play the same situation with another race? or just another game?

I guess I am sleepy as I thought I already answer you, but I do not see the post?
ANyway, yes it is the same game with the race changed to the one Originalbork proposed.

[vmxa1]

Bakalov I took a peek at the game finally. The log was not detailed enough for me to be sure I did the same things in the same time frame and order that you did for a clear comparision.
I can say I had some trouble meeting all the timelines for the run up to robo's. One problem was I did not get Gizmo, so I had to slam him in with the editor and the next leader as well. I deducted most of the cash at that point to simulate the purchase, but I did not know the correct price.
I also had Khunagg show up much earlier and hired him, so I am not sure what that impact would be.
In short it was not real far apart.
Anyway I was wonder why you would hire Gizmo at this point? You have no ships and will not have for some time, so you do not get any of the bonus he provides.
Why did you not assign the colony leader, just lazy or was there some tactical reason?

[bakalov]

I hired Gizmo (Researcher, Engineer) for the +5 RP that he gives (+10 later), and Yota (Famous*, Instructor) for the Famous* ability. These are the abilities of the leaders that appeared for me.

Yota cannot benefit the colony directly if there are no ships at it .... But when he gained the second level this saved me 180 from the price of each future leader. I was getting the later leaders at almost no cost. In spite of all this I think that I assigned him when I hired him ....
And later I assigned Khunagg for the additional food and production.

Once you complained about the leaders giving nothing when you used saved games sent by me. May be there is a kind of incompatibility here? Or the editor did not make everything correctly? Anyway Gismo indeed gives me 5 (or 10 later) RP. He s like a free additional scientist :-) That's why I hired him.

[bakalov]

BTW, vmxa, do you realize that because of the time difference we can not talk much? One or two posts a day .... If you have ICQ you can find me there at #20457526. I am always online when I am in front of my PC. It is possible for you to meet me there late at night or early in the morning (according to your time).

Or if there is anyone else interested in contacting me, I will be glad to hear from him ....

[vmxa1]

I do not have ICQ, never used it. I tend to not be connect to the net most of the time. I connect and visit a few times a day, but drop my connection as soon as I am done. I use DSL, so it is not much of a delay.
If you look at your RP and then hire Gizmo, it will not change, if you have no ships. Once you build even a scout and assign him, you see the boost. That is what I have seen and that is what happened in this game. I got the increase as soon as I made a ship and assigned him.

[vmxa1]

This could be a bug using the editor, but I am fairly sure I have seen this with out it. I will have to try to recreate without the editor. That should be easy as Gizmo shows up all the time.
I understand Yota or any famous leader as they save money and attrack others.

[vmxa1]

Well I reloaded te save and make 6 passes from the start and never got sparky to show, so it will have to wait. I am leaning towards it being a bug. I saw megawealth leaders (ship) that had their bonus applied unpon hiring.
Funny thing occurred, I researched Robo and went to the colony and it was not there to be build?

[vmxa1]

Well it took nine passes, but I finally got Gizmo to show up and the leader bonus was added without a ship.
So I guess it was a bug, or possibly another instance of losing my mind.

[oshox]

I've been messing around with custom races, and I have found a couple of winners. Creative/ Unification/ Subterranian is the easiest I've come across, but playing Creative races is a little too easy.
My newer experiments have been with Tolerant, sonce the popultation ond production bonuses are really quite nice. The two combinations I've been working with are:
Tolerant, Unification, +1 Research,
-20 Ship Attack & Defence, -10 Ground Combat, -3 Spying
Also:
Tolerant, Democracy, +1 Producion,
Same disadvantages as before, with Poor Homeworld

I'm going for a balanced race, but I question the worth of Democracy over Unification. The research boost is nice, along with the quickness you assimilate captured populations. Any advice?

-OshoX

[originalbork]

Oshox,

Always think multipliers. Demo +1 pro has 4 production on an ave planet. Uni +1 has 6..
Uni +1 Pro Tolerant is 6 with no pollution. This is a favorite of mine when combined with rep -20 sd and -20 gc. It is one of the best ave tech starting races.

For a Demo think Demo Lith Arty will give you an early research boom noone can match. Bakalov shows how to use this earlier in the thread.

IMO production races are much better in larger games. Depending on the starting positions and lower number of opponents a research race can be effective.

Uni goes with food and production
Demo goes with research and money.

Money and food are virtually worthless bonuses so stick with Uni-Pro and Demo-Res

Tolerant is a production bonus, Aqua is a food and size bonus (only use in org galaxy, instead of sub) and Lith neutralizes the Demo food problem.

When it comes to assimilation don't worry about uni being slow. Remember they have a production and food bonus. When you assimilate pop the 2 things you do are farm and build infrastructure. Buy the alien pop center right away. It lower's revold and assimilates them much faster.

Hope that helps.

[oshox]

Refinement

Alright. I don't like Lith, it is too expensive for the benefits it gives. Frees up your population and removes pressure on your friegter fleet... Cool, but I like Tolerant beter.
I guess what your saying is Tol/Uni is the better chance, but what to add to it? You said +1 prod, but that would make it just a little one-sided, IMO. I was thinking of something to raise research, either +1 Res or Artifacts Homeworld. Both cost the same, but which is better? Art Home would be better in the beginning (When you do your most research, neh?) but +1 res would be better overall.
Or maybe something else entirely. I could give myself a Poor Homeworld and get Cybernetic, which would free up my farmers to do research, as well as other benefits. Or maybe Warlord. If I already have about double production from the Uni/Tol combo, what would be a good thing to COMPLIMENT it, as balance is essential in running an empire. I think research would be the best idea, as I would be constantly feeding new machines into my factories. But I am often wrong...
-OshoX