Custom Race- Best Stats?

[Main_Brain]

I tried a Tolerant-Lithovore Race but it doesnt go as well in MP as Unifcation producepower-wise

[bakalov]

ok :-) I am waiting for MOO3 too but from what I have seen it will be quite different and very complex game. But I still will be playing the old games though - like MoM, MOO2, 1830 Railroads ....

[booklord]

I often go with

Unification
Telepathy
Cybernetic
Prod +1
( Standard start with a colony ship and 2 scouts )
( Small universe because I just don't have time for huge games )

Then I develope about 2 size 3 vessel with heavy armor. If I manage to strike early enough ( and if the other race hasn't developed missile bases ) then the regenerative benefits of cybernetic will allow me to take enemy homeworlds without losing a ship. Telepathy then allow me to take over the world without a struggle. Unification ensures that food and industrial production is actually better then when I found it.

I've won games without ever building a single colony ship. Don't bother with Tolerant or Lithovore. Just conquer a race that already is.

[vmxa1]

That race will run into trouble more often than not at impossible level. Telepathy is not useful IF you can not defeat their defenses. You will need to get to the nearest AI quickly and move very aggressively.
If your nearest race gets up a missile base before you get to them, you are cooked.
I just never found cyber to be worth the points. Early the boost is so small as to not have an impact and later, I just do not care about the lost of a ship or two.

[booklord]

If the enemy does develope missile bases then it just gets a little more interesting. Take out their surrounding colonies, blockade their home system. and build more cruisers. Early in the game even enemy battleships will rarely have the fire power to destroy a heavy armor cruiser with self-repair capabilities. Once you have three or four cruisers you should have enough defensive firepower to even ignore enemy missile bases. ( just keep in tight formation as you approach the planet ) Also don't forget to capture ( not destroy ) the orbitting star base.

The real danger is that you'll run into a race whose specials don't mesh well with yours. Armor heavy cruisers don't have that much room left for firepower so other cybernetic races vessels will be immune to your attacks as well. The Psilons often develop tech too quickly making early planetary assaults unwise. Other telepathic races are also tough to absorb.

Also there is the danger that you'll start completely isolated from the other races. The TEL-UNI-CYB-PROD+1 race picks work best if you can quickly find and locate a vulnerable race near the beginning. But there is a chance that any game may prove unwinable. If you start with a more peaceful race you can easily be overwhelmed by starting near an erratic expansionistic Sakkra.

[vmxa1]

By this time you are so far behind someone that you will soon be dead. If you do not get a planet cpatured quickly this race is not long for the game.
I say again Cyber is one of the poorest picks in the game.

[booklord]

I've played that selection multiple times and I've got a near 90% success rate on small galaxy ( for shorter more managable games ) / impossible.

The key is to go to war as soon as possible. Even if the enemy does manage to develope good defenses around their home worlds, you can still take over their colonies. If you blockade their homeworld and smash their fleets then you'll end up out-researching them anyway. They'll be to busy vainly trying to rebuild their fleet.

The key is that starting with auto-repairing ships ( with heavy armor ) is such a powerful advantage early on that you'll win space battles even when horribly outclassed. Even better the AI almost never retreats until it has suffered significant losses.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by booklord
I've played that selection multiple times and I've got a near 90% success rate on small galaxy ( for shorter more managable games ) / impossible.

The key is to go to war as soon as possible. Even if the enemy does manage to develope good defenses around their home worlds, you can still take over their colonies. If you blockade their homeworld and smash their fleets then you'll end up out-researching them anyway. They'll be to busy vainly trying to rebuild their fleet.

The key is that starting with auto-repairing ships ( with heavy armor ) is such a powerful advantage early on that you'll win space battles even when horribly outclassed. Even better the AI almost never retreats until it has suffered significant losses.

I am fully aware of the keys and how to play that race (or any race really). My point is while you are fooling around with this race and maybe beating eventually, some other race is coming over the top of you more than 10% of time on Prewarp, 8 race map of what ever size you pick. That race is not going to out produce a number of races, nor out research them. Where are you going to get Heavey Armor anyway? Did you forego AF? If so you will surely be falling behind, if you fail to grap a planet very quickly. If you waited for HA you are dead.
You must capture the nearest race ASAP or you can not win. Frankly I am very dubious of the 90% claim for that race in a legit game (no editor, no codes).

[vmxa1]

I would say that if you surveyed you would not find anyone listing a race in the top 10 that had Cyber as a trait. There is a reason for this, it sucks.
The three worst picks in the game are Uncreative, Fuedal and Cyber.
One of the most common things to see in a game early is a blockade. If you get blockade as a Cyber you will produce nothing. You will have problems with poor planet or ultra poor and need all the production boosts.
That trait does nothing for production or research or gowth. Dump it and get +1 prod, sci, or LHW/RHW or AHW anything.
If a strong race such as a UniTol or UniSubAQua with +prod or somethng is close by, you got a big problem.
A 10% boost to your armor of 100 is not going to save the day that often. You could get Sparky to do the same thing and use those picks for something else.

[originalbork]

The only reasonable cyber race is Uni-Cyber-Tol. The tolerant gives you some decent sized planets and stops the pollution from sucking up the production your planet doesn't.

The biggest problem with a cybernetic race is pop farming. You pop farm with 1 pop on a bad/small planet. As such it eats an extra 1/2 food and 1/2 production per turn which slows you down considerably.

[booklord]

That's why my cybernetic-telepathic-unification race has +1 prod.
To make for the production loss.

You're right though. This is NOT a race for people that start with pre-warp. ( I always play with maximum number of races ) The other races will out research you but good. I also do have to pick Heavy Armor over Automated Factories. Necessary evil.

I think I like this race because it really forces you to go on the offensive almost immediately. I'll probably be an Ithkul fan on Moo3.....

[bakalov]

Why do you think that the Ithkul will be offensive race in MOO3? I think that they will be a scientific one :-)

Anyway the race you spoke of may be is not very good. If it does not guarantee 100% success in SP, then what will remains for MP?
In MP such race will need an early attack ... This means no later than turn 50 on prewarp. Try to see if you can launch an attack with fully modded laser battleship till this time. If you can, then may be you have a chance :-)

By the way the race I have found that guarantees 100% success for single player is a creative one. It is not good for MP, but for single it is unbeatable. The reason for that is because the breakthrough for the creative races comes late (around turn 90 on prewarp).
In MP the other players wont let you live such long ... but the AI is not that agressive and it will not attack you till then for sure, or if it does its attack wont be strong and you will be able to easily defeat it. Once you get the proper tech the enemy ships will be paper dolls for yours ....

[booklord]

There is always a chance on impossible that you will lose. Imagine if the game starts you in a corner. You quickly discover you have two possible stars outside your home colony. Unfortunately one is guarded by a space crystal and the other is the darlok ( who the game has randomly selected to be both tolerant and repulsive ) homeworld.

Well if your a creative player, you're screwed. The darloks will most likely chew you up and spit you out. If you don't build up your military ships quickly the darloks will declare war on you early on. If you do then you'll be spending most of your efforts on production and not science which will cripple your starting efforts.

For a Cyber-Tel-Uni-Prod+1 race that starting spot is an early boon. Go out and conquer. For this race the worst scenario is that you'll start isolated and the nearest race is another cybernetic race. You'll get out-produced and out-researched.

I should also add that part of my early strategy with this race is to build heavy armor cruisers(size 3) not battleships (size 4). Battleships take too long.

[originalbork]

If you are playing that small of a galaxy any good lith race will dismantle a cyber.


Uni-Lith-+1 pro- Large will kick that races ass.
Production 36 - pollution or 24 research

Or a demo lith arti
Production 24 - pollution or 60 reasearch.

Your race is 23 production - pollution or 18 research.

No contest the lith will build em bigger and better. Your race will find itself in a boatload of trouble when facing any lith.

[vmxa1]

bakalov I would like to see a Creative race that wins 100%. I actually think Creative is a harder pick than many to win with. 8 picks is a lot to give up and it will be a while before you can recoup that loss. You may not have that time. I also think that Advanced Tech starts are worse for the creative race than PreWarp. They pop up with a ton of structures that they can not afford to build and the producing races get some that they can use to get after them with.