Custom Race- Best Stats?

[Zealot]

Interesting tactic bakalov, but if you sell your starbase you will lose a lot of money becasuse of the fleet size.
I can destroy an enemy starbase with a fully modded BB, but you still need the production for some transports. And since you don't have Unification...
I'll try your tactic nevertheless.

[Zealot]

Sorry, but it still sucks. I recommend Sub+lith+artis instead. you'll have a lot more pop.
As far as timing goes, Uni+tol+1 prod is still unbeatable.

[vmxa1]

DemoLith can be a very srong race.

[Zealot]

You can do a lot better with Unitol or Sublith!

[bakalov]

Hey, who is talking about BBs? I am talking about destroying the starbase with a single destroyer (cost ~110, no battle pods)! See the design in the attached saved game! Or at most 2 - the starting 5 command points are more than enough.

Here are some more details abot this tactic:

1. Don't pick negative ship defence !
2. negative ship attack may be ok
probably (-ship attack; -gc; repulsive) is best
3. It was much too easy to beat the enemies with taking the Optronic computer instead of research labs (see the attached saves, too bad I did not made an earlier save. My negatives there are not ok, though.
Against human I would the ones mentioned above).
If you are playing against a human then you probably can take research labs though because most human players take the negative ship defense (this statement should be tested, I am not very certain).
4. This tactics is easier for use against humans in MP than against AI who tends to have +ship att/def bonuses at impossible (in opposing of humans who tend to have negative ones).
5. If the human opponent sells his starbase for faster development, you won't have to destroy it and can beat him even with frigates :-)
6. Research the Deuterium after you have one destroyer and an outpost ship for best surprise against a human in medium gal.

At the attached save game I destroyed the klakon's starbase on turn 30 only with the first destroyer! The Idea was to blokade the homeworld with it until the second comes, but I discovered that I can beat him with only one. This way I could have conquered him on turn 33-34 (instead of 37) by building the 2 transports after the first destroyer ...
2 destroyers are better though because they could handle the starbase + a ship.

Against a human I could bombard his farms while waiting for a second destroyer to come (2 more turns).

Another good aspect of this tactics:
You can capture the research labs or automated factories tech in this way, allowing you to go for the heavy armor :-)

Anyway if I play this tactics and you are my neighbour with an uni-aqua or uni-tol in prewarp game, than the chances are much against you :-) You may disagree but ... fear these destroyers :-)

[bakalov]

(Don't take this message personally, but its answer to the statement that my race sucks ;-)

Sorry, Zealot, but this race is designed to beat one as you before he can even think about it :P Before you look around you will be blockaded. Before you look around twice you will be dead :-)

Just look at the saves from the previous post - the klackon there was much like your fav races. And don't worry about these poor communists (we here think about the unification as a communist society :P). The democracy assimilates fast :-) Long live the freedom :-)

And now let's a bit more serious ... I am not 100% certain that you cant do anything to stop me, but if you try to and I am on the other side of the gal playing another communist then I will have advantage over you because I'd have been settled better. And if you don't do anything then I can be near you with a democratic/lithovore/artifacts and really kill you ....
That is the paranoya :-)

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Zealot
You can do a lot better with Unitol or Sublith!

I did not say it was the best race only that when I played it a few times it was very strong. A number of races are quite strong for SP games. In an MP game, it is more about match ups, what are your oppents doing. As long as you are not weaker than they are you are good to go.

[originalbork]

[SIZE=1]

And now let's a bit more serious ... I am not 100% certain that you cant do anything to stop me, but if you try to and I am on the other side of the gal playing another communist then I will have advantage over you because I'd have been settled better. And if you don't do anything then I can be near you with a democratic/lithovore/artifacts and really kill you ....
That is the paranoya :-)

Bakalov that is a good tactic. However it requires a couple things. One is that you are a WH away from the UNI-TOL. 2nd he is not versed in annoying tactics. Basically he can outbuild the hell out of you. You do 24 production before pollution and he does 48 without. So once he sees you he goes full build mode and destroyers come quickly. You need to build a DD, OP and TP just to have a shot at him. If however he takes down your op and you didn't take a planet, you have a long ride home and no starbase to protect you.

It is risky but could be a good surprise tactic in a 1 on 1 game. I'd give it about a 1 in 5 of taking a good player down. It would cost you the game 4 out of 5 times though.

[bakalov]

I will research deuterium just at the moment I am building my second destroyer ... so he will have at most 3-4 turns to prepare after seeing me or even less if I have navigator; Besides what tech he will have at turn 30? eventually nuclear missiles with no mods ..... I can shoot down at least 10 missiles per turn if he fires them from afar. If he tries to get close then he will be dead before firing. One of his ships will be dead before firing anyway. Eventually he can end up with his HW blockaded and he will not be able to build faster than me - he'll need more frarmers and will have reduced production; And besides I can attack only the defender ships at the farm colonies without involving the star base.

And democracy will have less production but more money. Not great factor but it will help a little for the first few ships, and these will be the ones that will solve the conflict. If I think a little more I'm sure that I can think out about other advantages that I have.

I havent tried this in MP - I thought out this tactics just to peck at the Zealot who is accusing me for not playing on Kali ...... As I said I haven't such opportunity in spite of my wish.

And finaly I'll say that anyone even you, originalbork, with your experience can not be judge before trying it. I would say that my chances are better.

[bakalov]

I have always said that there is no best race and continue to support that opinion :-) But some of you tried to declare that the uni-aqua and uni-tol are the best ones. I completely disagree .... They are good races, but there is not a best one in spite of what can anyone think. The game is ballanced well enough if we exclude the flaws.

[bakalov]

And I can't understand why do you love the communists so much? Don't you feel a little inconveniently? :P

[vmxa1]

Not wanting to be in the middle of your fun, but I do not care about commie or any other aspect if the traits will win for me, it is just a game, so I do not project my abhorence to communism or even socialism in to it.

[originalbork]

Originally posted by bakalov

And finaly I'll say that anyone even you, originalbork, with your experience can not be judge before trying it. I would say that my chances are better.

Because my goal is to always win a game I wouldn't intentionally take a strategy that might not get me home just by the layout of the stars.

For that to work you need a WH to my home. If I am facing that race I only need to blow up your op while protecting my home. I've faced similar strategies in the past and with a little learning I became very good at stifling the early rush.

What is interesting to me is that you said you had no pods on your ships what can you put in them?

Demo Lith is a good pre-warp ave or min rich race. I believe it is better than dic-sub-lith because of the lack of need for a marine barrack. If you go Large - Rich over arti I think it is far more balanced however.

If you go ave tech than I think uni-tol has it hands down. An organic galaxy really favors the uni-tol and uni aqua. The biggest advantage the uni tol has is the bypass of poll proc and/or atmos renew. If it gets to Zort they are nasty because they can easily have pulson missiles as chaff with mirv mercs behind and that doesn't go down easy.

[bakalov]

There is example for ship designs in the saved game that I attached to one of the previous posts. One of these ships may be sufficient to handle a starbase if the player has not +Ship Attack bonuses and you attack it early enough.

Of course there are many other possibilities. You can go for research labs, AF & battle pods and space academy, but this will slow your attack by about 7 turns.

Proximity to the home world is not mandatory as you can reach quite far with an outpost and deuterium ... You have to miss the tritanium armor, but the strategy supposes that your ships will not be hit at all, so the armor does not matter.

And bork, for the races, once you spoke about the cumulative bonuses. The race I am speaking of have these in research:

lithovore x2 (from the beginning, expires with time)
democracy x 1.5
artifacts x 1.67

for a total of x5 (60RP instead of 12RP w/o bonuses)
I read somewhere for killing the Guardian at turn 97 in prewarp with this race. Not tried it myself. Can you beat this?

Again I am talking about prewarp(!) strategy, not average. It is important.

[originalbork]

Demo-Lith is always better than SUB-LITH-DIC. I don't even have the CD anymore. I had wasted so many hours playing I had to can it. I haven't played anything since and am ready to start wasting it on MOO3.

That strategy is good in a 1 on 1 game of prewarp if you have the range to get there, you may need more than 1 op which would cost that race dearly. I definitely like the bypassing of some techs for the early attack. If you wait for pods and space academy it will falter. Other races will catch your substantial early advantage. It is a breaking point earlier than I have seen.

I have played so many multi's and my ranking on Kali was never lower than 3 that I have a distaste for all or nothing strategies. It is just a personal preference for me to keep my rank high.