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"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. " -
Indeed. I have Civ4 and just soooo need to get Civ RevOriginally posted by lord of the mark
You are so right Asher............snip...............Oh and Im gonna buy Civ4 any day now (in honor of its 10 anniv) even though as everyone knows Civ:Rev is superior.
PC gaming is dead. Dont be fooled.
I'm just about to start playing an old PC game again also - Crusader Kings. I didn't try the last big patch(1.05) and think it about time. Deus Vult(the expansion for CK) is getting better, still not an excuse for releasing too soon+ very buggy. Still this is a problem that has been part of PC gaming for a long time - we have internet so get it out the door, we can patch it later. One of the reasons for PC gamings decline, and one that online consoles should learn from.
My 'new' PS2 is getting the second most attention(PC first) gameswise, it has some cool games - definately the best mix of any console I've tried so far. BUT it don't have the flexibility or back catalogue of gaming goodness that a PC does, not by a long shot.
A friend of mine has just ditched his 360 in favour of a new PC. I think in part he got pi**ed when his 360 did the 'ring of death' thing, and he had to wait a while for that to be sorted. But from the way he spoke about it I get the impression he was just getting bored by the games he can play on it.
He was buying everything that came out, so a good disposible income, but now he's a happy PC gamer and his 360 is a dust gatherer.
I have to blame myself as he had been around my place a few times and I'm always playing something on PC(when not working!!), and I guess he liked what he saw?
But yeah PC gaming is a dead mule floating down a crocodile infested river towards a huge waterfall of doom, at least thats what the console industry wants us to think, and they are always right aren't they?Comment
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Indeed. I have Civ4 and just soooo need to get Civ Rev
Civ Rev is part of the problem of PC Developers misunderstanding their competition.
Edit: Might I add that your anecdotal evidence reinforces my opinion that you live on another planet from the rest of us."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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It's factually impossible for me to not live on this planet?
In other news Chris Sawyer says PC gaming is going to get better:
But considering the stupid tech requirements for Supreme Commander, an rts, well it's a bit rich I think.
I really don't believe that games have become so much more complicated that you need all this hardware - that is all about graphics, and nothing else. Do I really care if the physics engine in my game can render 3Billion textures instead of 3Million? erm no - just make a good game that runs well on a sub £1000 rig and you're doing PC gaming a world of good imho.
If guys could do what they could do in the early 8bit/16bit days then with the hardware we have now, as long as you don't focus on photo-realistic graphics(the Wii has shown these dont matter to make succesfull games) you can make awesome games today. I really wish Brabben et all would jump on this and do what they do best.
But yeah PC gaming is going to get better - thanks to the Wii....or something
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He's certainly not helping that cause by releasing **** games...Originally posted by El_Cid
It's factually impossible for me to not live on this planet?
In other news Chris Sawyer says PC gaming is going to get better:"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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Gears of War 2 is "not coming to PC this time around"."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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I HAVENT HAD SEX IN A REALLY LONG TIME SO I'M READING THIS THREAD DID SOME BODY SAY BLUE BALLS"??
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Some interesting news from Stardock via gamasutra:
Well about time a bigger player saw the light in my humble opinion. Ok Stardock are no EA, but I've always felt they keep an element of Indie ethos about their whole approach, and genuinely I believe Brad Wardell does care about the future of PC gaming.
Now I'm under no illusion how the AAA publishers will look at this, they will ignore it of course, but I think it will be interesting to see if smaller devs could get involved and how that could all pan out.
As a longtime gamer myself I've had to suffer everything from tricky cardboard puzzles to annoying dongles to DRM's that screw my PC(and this is the current problem that is stopping me buying many new PC games), and well I think the industry needs to re-engage with PC gamers and give them some assurances that they don't need to buy consoles to have trouble free gaming. The PC can also be a trouble free gaming platform.
So good on Stardock and Mr.Wardell - I think he has enough weight(as a dev&publisher), especially in the smaller independent market to start to make a necessary change in PC gaming.Comment
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Heres some spam about Stardock
So what if Sins sold half a million games
1. Thats like NOTHING compared to what console games routinely sell
2. Its an RTS, and PCs are so narrow, all theyve got are RTS, TBS, citybuilders, sims, MMORPGs. So dont celebrate the "success of an RTS"
PC gaming is doomed.
BTW, have fun with Deus Veult. Ive played vanilla CK with 1.05, and Ive liked it. See the thread where I talk about playing as the Piasts, if you can find it. If I get a Paradox expansion it will be Vickie:Rev."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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HALF A MILLION. Good Lord, that's only what, a quarter as many sales as WII CARNIVAL PHUN PAK"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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...Agree.If guys could do what they could do in the early 8bit/16bit days then with the hardware we have now, as long as you don't focus on photo-realistic graphics(the Wii has shown these dont matter to make succesfull games) you can make awesome games today. I really wish Brabben et all would jump on this and do what they do best.
Graphics really don't matter to me... except that I can't buy games that have high system reqs.
And frankly also, as I've said many times before- I actually despise 3D in any games except Action/Adventure/Racing. I prefer isometric in RPG, City Building, Empire Building, and TBSes. There is no need for these types of games to go 3D.-->Visit CGN!
-->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944Comment
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The important part is how much cost-to-profit ratio exists. Yes a 'normal' XBLA game will sell more units, but how much of that success makes it back to the developer? And how much is that compared to the development costs?Originally posted by lord of the mark
Heres some spam about Stardock
So what if Sins sold half a million games
1. Thats like NOTHING compared to what console games routinely sell
2. Its an RTS, and PCs are so narrow, all theyve got are RTS, TBS, citybuilders, sims, MMORPGs. So dont celebrate the "success of an RTS"
PC gaming is doomed.
BTW, have fun with Deus Veult. Ive played vanilla CK with 1.05, and Ive liked it. See the thread where I talk about playing as the Piasts, if you can find it. If I get a Paradox expansion it will be Vickie:Rev.
it IS pretty sad when we are discussing a successful pc title with such a small comparitive overall sales compared to consoles. But it was a fairly niche product, Stardock themselves are fairly niche(and that is what makes them good for PC gaming imho). If you want to talk figures and PC gaming(to feel good about it) just say The Sims.
And that is what I love about PC gaming compared to console. It's so varied, both in terms of product type and development opportunities.
As for CK, i'm just playing with CK and 1.05 myself - it looks too complicated so far(still) with Dues Vult, all the extra mods needed to patch it up etc.
PC gaming will be doomed when:
1. We all stop playing games on our PC's(of any kind).
2. MS makes the OS a locked down platform, either along the lines of consoles or maybe by the talked about remote OS option. Basicaly anything that will stop/hinder one man and his dog in a bedroom making a game on their PC(and this has started) and being able to sell it without huge costs involved.
So far neither of those apply and I happily play(not so much these days due to work) PC games first and foremost - the library is probably almost exhaustive(I've been gaming for over 20 years and I still find new(old) interesting stuff).
Consoles(and their games) do ok for a year, then boredom sets in. They are good for a bit of light relief from time to time. They are the face of modern consumerism(in games). Sexy, desirable, and over very quickly, time to buy another. rinse and repeat.
@DarkCloud, I suspect it will take a while for the 'Wii effect' to filter across all platforms and developers and publishers.
Once people stop chasing the candy and realise what makes gaming so different from books or films(and these can have the most damaging effect on current game development) then we can get back on track and start where we left of sometime in the early to mid 90's(that's my theoretical 'industry shift').
The potential for games is huge, I've always known it, and we have dug ourselves into a corner(a sometimes profitable corner for sure) in some ways. That will change, maybe a crash like we had in the 80's will be needed first? difficult to say.
Even though I'll never own a Wii, I love the extra dimension it brings to modern thinking about games and what they should and could be. It was needed imho.Comment
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What's interesting is while LOTM is using the Sins article as a sign of success for the overall PC industry, the specific breakdowns they include of boxed vs digital download sales is telling.
Of the 500,000 copies sold, only 100,000 were via digital download. That's 20%.
Yet LOTM dismisses NPD's sales figures showing the PC sales WAY behind console sales because a significant portion of PC games are sold via digital distribution. Sins is essentially a textbook case in favour of digital distribution and it only pushes 20% of its sales that way. I think this shows LOTM is overstating the significant of the DD sales."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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I think this shows that you and LotM should hug, kiss, and make up.Comment
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To be fair to LotM he is in the same boat as everyone else over the actual DD percentage of overall PC game sales, unless you get an actual report like the sales for Sins it's pretty much guess work.Originally posted by Asher
What's interesting is while LOTM is using the Sins article as a sign of success for the overall PC industry, the specific breakdowns they include of boxed vs digital download sales is telling.
Of the 500,000 copies sold, only 100,000 were via digital download. That's 20%.
Yet LOTM dismisses NPD's sales figures showing the PC sales WAY behind console sales because a significant portion of PC games are sold via digital distribution. Sins is essentially a textbook case in favour of digital distribution and it only pushes 20% of its sales that way. I think this shows LOTM is overstating the significant of the DD sales.
For example if you want to look at the casual gaming scene on PC, 100%(as near as) of sales of those titles happen as DD, and all the big portals(like Big Fish etc) that sell these kind of games shift 100's of thousands with the more popular titles.
But yeah for a model that I guess is about as good a take on DD, as this is Stardocks thing(for the future of PC games etc), then yeah 20% is not a cheerfull number.
And the article about it's sales isn't clear about the 'full price retail sales' - is that all via third party shop sales or includes Stardocks own hardcopy sales(game posted with CD)?
I wonder if the game would have made any profit if it only was sold on-line? Maybe all indie devs need to aspire(pay for) shop retail space?
And yeah you and LotM should make up - no one here is a threat to anyone else, just all into games so we could be a little nicer? You can carry on being as arsey to me as you like Asher, it doesn't bother me
Last edited by El_Cid; September 6, 2008, 05:05.Comment
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