Now we descend into Oblivion ... (pt 3)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I may DL the no psychic guards one... especially since I'm doing the Dark Brotherhood quests .

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hmm... for some reason the fonts won't change over to the new ones. I didn't even have a Data\Fonts\ folder.. so I had to create one for new ones.

So I had to reinstall the BTMod over the DarN mod, then added a few things (changing what pops up when you go into another area and moving item and person info to the middle of the screen under the crosshair instead of bottom right).

Unfortunately, in the 'Pop Up' info screen in the inventory, I have some bigger text than I did before, which screws it up a bit. It isn't a huge problem, but sucks all the same, and I'm not sure how to fix it short of reinstalling the game and putting all the mods back on (um... no).

The lesson here? Backup your **** before you play around!

[asleepathewheel]

I'm thinking the reduced levelling is a must for my next game. I'm at level......41 now, haven't touched the main quest past Weynon Priory (not done kvatch) and still have maybe 5 DB quests and 1 Theives quest left, and I've really only visited caves and locations due to the various quests. hmm.

[Spaced Cowboy]

Yeah seems like the game would have been much better is you needed 10 points to level from 1 to 2, then 11 to go from 2 to 3, 12 to go from 3 to 4, etc.

I don't mind fast leveling in the begining, but seems like end game leveling is too easy.

Meh, I guess it just doesn't matter at some point, you'll be at 100 on everything by then anyway.

[yin26]

O.K., I'm 70 hours in, and I feel safe making some definitive statements about Oblivion. I'll try to sum up 3 positive and 3 negative points with a brief conclusion to put a point on it:

POSITIVES

1. See above. 70 hours! No matter what criticisms we might come up with, 70 hours on a game happily engaged is no minor achievement.

2. I probably have another 70 hours or more if I want it. Also a major achievement. I have essentially ingored the main quest and most of the side adventures you could take on the map. In other words, I've done most of the Thieves' Guild and Mages' Guild stuff. This means I have TONS of content left to go. Along the way, some of the quests were surprisingly fresh in terms of new spins on "Find x item and return it to person y."
3. All my hardward upgrade woes (and expense) were worth it. The game is simply a joy to look at.

NEGATIVES

1. At some point, a lot of the 70+ hours become mere variations on a theme. I think this is where Oblivion's on-line, group-based brethren have the secret to true longevity: shared experiences with friends that offer something new each session (new at least in terms of human-human interaction). Oblivion ends up feeling pretty lonely. You're this sole figure, usually fighting enemies one at a time. Ultimately the grand open-endedness of the game also opens the game to another weakness coupled with lonliness: each quest must be programmed as a self-contained unit (since who knows when you'll start it?), and although the game tries to recognize what you've done in a logical way ("Hey, you're the hero of Kavatch!"), what you essentially get in a trade off for open-endedness is 1,000 quests that can be tackled as 1,000 very similar mini sessions. Sure, there is an overall plot but no urgency. I think maybe there should be a timer running, after which time if you haven't closed x number of gates by date x, creatures get harder or something?

2. Thus, the remaining content now is approach that "chore" feeling. Do I really want to clear out another cave? True, the monsters and treasure are scaling to my level, so the challenge and reward are always growing...but the method and suspense aren't. Again, to come up with 140 hours of engaging SP content would be close to a miracle, but it's not really a miracle I see happening in Oblivion.

3. I'm looking forward to some code optimization that will finally let my newfound hardware run the game with NO slow-downs. Wish me luck.

CONCLUSION

Ultimately Oblivion is one of those games that any RPGer *must* play in order to witness an important moment in the genre's history. And hey, even if you "only" get 50 hours or so of engaging gameplay out of it before the routines gets tired, it's still a great-looking and typically great-playing experience. In the end, though, I think the next game in the series needs to take the Oblivion trend to its logical conclusion: Make particular quests and plot line even more important (at least we can easily keep track of and find them in Oblivion) and give a second thought to making the game TOO open-ended. Beyond quests, if every player can become a sword-wielding, stealth-mastering, spell casting demi-God of all trades, then where are the strategic choices to be made in character creation and game play? Unfortunately, Oblivion can easily digress to a mundane game of upping all your stats all the time so you never have to compromise on anything. True, a patient role-player could avoid this, but the game begs it. For example, I realized I could set my character to auto sneak ('q' key) into a rock with my horse looking the other way. The result? Go make some tea and come back with +5 sneak skill. I stopped at that point so I wouldn't ruin the illusion any further --and this is an exploit easily avoided by the player -- but the question still hit me: Heck, why not just max out these stats and move on with being God?

Well, I didn't really want to be God...just a good thief. Somewhere along the way, I failed the game, and the game failed me. But no matter all that, 70 hours with many more mods and opportunities to come back means that Oblivion is a major success in my (over-stuffed spell) book.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you have to write a review about EVERYTHING?

[El_Cid]

I like Yins reviews(always have since the Civ3 days). They come from the 'Slightly jaded but eternally enthusiastic discerning gamer' school of thought, which is a good one in todays mass market, churn out any old junk(as long as its 3D) for the kiddies type games industry.
So i'm happy that he keeps at it

I still think Oblivion has the potential to be the best TES game so far, but its going to come from the modding community, and will take some time.

The aspects of daggerfall that Oblivion re-introduces us to: Horses, Npc's with day/night routines and Leveled monsters(although this does need balancing - see the modders) are good points over Morrowind imho. But as it gives with one hand it takes away with another.

Stupid fast levelling, quick day/night cycles(partialy to hide how small the gaming area actualy is) and a general dumbing down of most of the detailed rpg aspects of the series. So what you end up with is very much an rpg for the casual FPS player. Which is of course probably the intended market.

Still i really like this game now. I've got 10 Mods in place, got rid of all conflicts, and have arrived at a version of Oblivion that is near perfect for me. This is going to be one of the games greatest strengths - and what will probably keep us playing it for years to come.
Want to build your own town somewhere in the forrests of Valenwood? I suspect that one day we will all be able to do such things and find new content to keep us engaged in this very beautifull looking game.

I hate it when a game wins me over with its looks - i feel cheap and dirty

oh and a quick tip:

If you want to slow down the time that the game progresses at(default is 30 game minutes for each real world minute) go into the console(its the apostrophy type key next to the number 1 key - below the escape key! lol) and type:

set timescale to X

where X could be 20,15,10(i wouldn't go lower than 10 - 15 seems good and what i use). Then save your game to fix the state change. Now you can relax a bit more and explore without rushing. To go back to default just type:

set timescale to 30

And then save again - the passage of time is back to vanilla Oblivion.

I had been using a mod for this effect but it was conflicting with the Survival Suite mod(for eating/drinking/sleeping). This method of slowing game time down i've tested for about 12 hrs of playing and it hasn't had any negative effects yet, and resolved the conflict i had been getting(which was screwing up my stats).

The Mods are going to be the strength of Oblivion, as it was with Morrowind.

[Nostromo]

Do you have to write a review about EVERYTHING?

Absolutely everything. Meals, car trips, conversations, sex, name it, he reviews it.

[yin26]

Thanks, El-Cid! Imran, you trouble maker!!! Nostromo has it right, actually. I'm actually thinking of reviewing my reviews...

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally posted by yin26
Thanks, El-Cid! Imran, you trouble maker!!! Nostromo has it right, actually. I'm actually thinking of reviewing my reviews...

I almost did that as a joke, but figured I don't know you well enough.

[Rasputin]

well i still palying...


Levle 14 now.. a bit worreid about this vampirism though not sur eif it good to keep it or if i shoud lget a cure.

The cure is a ver yfiddly thing to chase up

[spolier] wish i had kept those dame garlic cloves now [/spoiler]


my intention is to compelte as many quests as possible.

I own 4 houses now and 2 horses. i lost one horse somewhere.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by yin26
O.K., I'm 70 hours in, and I feel safe making some definitive statements about Oblivion. I'll try to sum up 3 positive and 3 negative points with a brief conclusion to put a point on it:

POSITIVES

1. See above. 70 hours! No matter what criticisms we might come up with, 70 hours on a game happily engaged is no minor achievement.

2. I probably have another 70 hours or more if I want it. Also a major achievement. I have essentially ingored the main quest and most of the side adventures you could take on the map. In other words, I've done most of the Thieves' Guild and Mages' Guild stuff. This means I have TONS of content left to go. Along the way, some of the quests were surprisingly fresh in terms of new spins on "Find x item and return it to person y."
3. All my hardward upgrade woes (and expense) were worth it. The game is simply a joy to look at.

NEGATIVES

1. At some point, a lot of the 70+ hours become mere variations on a theme. I think this is where Oblivion's on-line, group-based brethren have the secret to true longevity: shared experiences with friends that offer something new each session (new at least in terms of human-human interaction). Oblivion ends up feeling pretty lonely. You're this sole figure, usually fighting enemies one at a time. Ultimately the grand open-endedness of the game also opens the game to another weakness coupled with lonliness: each quest must be programmed as a self-contained unit (since who knows when you'll start it?), and although the game tries to recognize what you've done in a logical way ("Hey, you're the hero of Kavatch!"), what you essentially get in a trade off for open-endedness is 1,000 quests that can be tackled as 1,000 very similar mini sessions. Sure, there is an overall plot but no urgency. I think maybe there should be a timer running, after which time if you haven't closed x number of gates by date x, creatures get harder or something?

2. Thus, the remaining content now is approach that "chore" feeling. Do I really want to clear out another cave? True, the monsters and treasure are scaling to my level, so the challenge and reward are always growing...but the method and suspense aren't. Again, to come up with 140 hours of engaging SP content would be close to a miracle, but it's not really a miracle I see happening in Oblivion.

3. I'm looking forward to some code optimization that will finally let my newfound hardware run the game with NO slow-downs. Wish me luck.

CONCLUSION

Ultimately Oblivion is one of those games that any RPGer *must* play in order to witness an important moment in the genre's history. And hey, even if you "only" get 50 hours or so of engaging gameplay out of it before the routines gets tired, it's still a great-looking and typically great-playing experience. In the end, though, I think the next game in the series needs to take the Oblivion trend to its logical conclusion: Make particular quests and plot line even more important (at least we can easily keep track of and find them in Oblivion) and give a second thought to making the game TOO open-ended. Beyond quests, if every player can become a sword-wielding, stealth-mastering, spell casting demi-God of all trades, then where are the strategic choices to be made in character creation and game play? Unfortunately, Oblivion can easily digress to a mundane game of upping all your stats all the time so you never have to compromise on anything. True, a patient role-player could avoid this, but the game begs it. For example, I realized I could set my character to auto sneak ('q' key) into a rock with my horse looking the other way. The result? Go make some tea and come back with +5 sneak skill. I stopped at that point so I wouldn't ruin the illusion any further --and this is an exploit easily avoided by the player -- but the question still hit me: Heck, why not just max out these stats and move on with being God?

Well, I didn't really want to be God...just a good thief. Somewhere along the way, I failed the game, and the game failed me. But no matter all that, 70 hours with many more mods and opportunities to come back means that Oblivion is a major success in my (over-stuffed spell) book.

POSITIVES

Some constructive critiques there. Easy to follow 3 points technique in "Positives" and "Negatives" catagories and detailed "Conclusion". Good conversational style.

NEGATIVES

Somewhat short. A more in depth review could be done with more time, I think. Seemed rushed. Maybe the publisher pushed it out too soon. Perhaps needs a patch.

CONCLUSION

Overall pretty solid, but quite lacking in 'red meat'. Perhaps the patched version will offer more, but fairly good by itself.

4/5 stars

(You mean like that Spaced? )

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
POSITIVES

Some constructive critiques there. Easy to follow 3 points technique in "Positives" and "Negatives" catagories and detailed "Conclusion". Good conversational style.

NEGATIVES

Somewhat short. A more in depth review could be done with more time, I think. Seemed rushed. Maybe the publisher pushed it out too soon. Perhaps needs a patch.

CONCLUSION

Overall pretty solid, but quite lacking in 'red meat'. Perhaps the patched version will offer more, but fairly good by itself.

4/5 stars

(You mean like that Spaced? )

Seemed rushed, trying too hard for jokes
Nice try, pretty unexpected response.

= Nice try, but ultimately unsatisfying. Back to the drawing board.

[Silver14]

Imrans reviews are too short.

Perhaps if his first review had substance he could have reviewed himself better. Seeing as I have no martial for which to give a real review, I give Imran a D+.

I would have given him an F, but I can tell he didn't plagiarize anything as it was that bad.



P.S. You know I'm kidding. A+!

[Solver]

I'm on my Oblivion break, but very satisfied. I probably spent around 60 hours on it, so far. Will definitely go to play other sessions of it later.

As far as I see it, it's improved Morrowind in every area where it ever lacked. Here's the positive stuff for me:

No longer quite alone. I don't feel like I'm the only one person in there. In Morrowind, despite all the 1000 NPCs, it felt dead. Oblivion feels alive - to me, just seeing people go around towns, enter taverns for supper, or training for Arena fights, it makes the world lively. Sure, they don't seem like real people if you follow them, but they do feel alive and not like cardboard cutouts with dialogue.

Quests are more fun. I've encountered many more unusual or interesting quests in Oblivion. Quests that require investigation, that have several possible solutions, that require some thinking, etc. Also, most quests have some story, even if small, attached to them.

Recognition. To a certain extent at least, people talk about stuff you are doing / have done, and there is some feeling that things are changing.

Hmm... the really difficult thing about a game such as Oblivion is that it's open-ended. Since it's open-ended, and very big, it can't by definition have perfect pacing, because you're free to do whatever you want. Then again, you're also free to play at wheatever pacing you want for the main quest, for example.

There are few negatives I've noticed, and nothing for me in the "this sucks" category - the negatives are just that, negatives, not horrible errors. For example, one such negative is, IMO, the voice acting. It's for the most part actually well-done, but it really shows that it was done by only a few people. I know it isn't feasible to get a thousand people for voice recordings, but having 2 or 3 people for every race/gender combination would be feasible. Certainly with the money they spent on the big actors.

It's a bit disappointing that so many of the in-game books are old ones from Morrowind. Again, nothing major, but it would have been nice to have more new texts.

Level-scaling, when you reach a higher level, breaks the immersion a bit when a random group of bandits in a cave is wearing Daedric and Ebony armor.

Radiant AI offers a bit less than it promised. For example, NPCs can never be seen shopping, though that was promised - still solid overall, though.