Exactly 2 years ago, this thread kicked off, and I'd have to say it's been an interesting journey. Learned much along the way, but what about the initial goal? A version of Hexagonian's Cradle that is fully compatible with the Apolyton Edition? As veteran thread viewers might well agree, the answer is yes. For the past week+ I've been running a long "human game", and it's been.....fun. So while there's a lot which could be done to tweak and improve further, maybe it's just time to send this out there and see what others think.
Technically that means putting a halt to further changes, solidify the "Era Swap"....and then hosting. But it is kind of cool to see the end most definitely in sight.
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Making Cradle 3+ fully compatible with the Apolyton Edition
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Various changes and new features:
1) New Religious Victory Movie: As noted above, a new victory movie was created for "Birth of an Empire", and the same process (editing the CtP1 Intro movie) was used to create a new Movie for the Religious Victory. Tested and works fine.
2) New Science Feat: An additional Feat has been added for the builder of the first 5 Ziggurats, since there should be an early game Science Feat.
3) Advance Discovery Feats: The first civ to discover each of 13 Advances (f/e Concrete, Internet, Robotics, etc) get a Feat Bonus, but that information was not included in the Great Library. It is now.
4) Dark Age Duration: The Minoans and Mayans have "Dark Age" Feats which last for 100 turns. By contrast, there are only 6 other Civs with Dark Ages, and their duration is either 20 or 30 turns. I've experienced the longer ones, and they seem to last forever (1000 years!) Accordingly we'll drop them from 100 to 50 turns.
5) Advance Links: Changed the flow of Advances so that "Tank Warfare" is no longer a dead end but is part of the chain leading to "Combined Arms" (which includes the "Heavy Tank").
6) Advance Links (con): Likewise, "Naval Aviation" now flows into the "Flight" series of Advances as a pre-req for "Jet Propulsion" replacing the redundant "Modern Metallurgy (already part of that chain).
7) Convert City: Success and Death Rates for the dedicated Religious Units were inconsistent. As just one example, the Cleric's death rate was very high (.5) while the earlier Prophet was quite a bit lower (.3), but all needed tweaking. Several of the Wonder units also have this ability but their chance of success is very low (.4 or less), which is offset by no chance of dying.
8) Advance Cost adjustments: Reviewed all L1 thru L4 Advances and revised some of the research costs (some higher, some lower), mostly to account for moving several of the Wonders to Advances that previously had no benefits. The main change was to L4, which had a big disconnect in research costs: Half of them averaged 800 (roughly the same as L3) while the rest were around 1500. Now all are 1000 or more. The average increase was kept to 80 by instituting a huge reduction in the "Chariots" Advance (from 1700 to 1000).
9) "NoZOC" attribute for Destroyer unit: Only three "non-Wonder" military units have ZOC; Battleship, Destroyer, & Dreadnaught. Of those I can see the rationale (sort of) for Battleship given its size and "over-the-horizon" gun range (and Dreadnaught if only because that is the upgrade from Battleship), but Destroyer doesn't make sense, especially since it has short range guns and upgrades to Plasma Destroyer (which does not have ZOC).
10) Changed "Injoined" to "Disrupted": When a city is "sabotaged", the text in the Infobar (bottom of the screen) said "injoined". Unfortunately this is controlled by the ldl_str.txt file (one of those which can't be swapped), so we'll need a generic term that applies to BOTH "sabotage" (the ancient era attack) and "injoin" (the modern version). "Production Halted" worked for both, but is much longer (18 characters) than any other messages in this location. Eventually I settled on "Disrupted", which applies regardless of era. As an aside, I ran a test to see how the Infobar handled multiple results, specifically an enemy city that was Converted, Franchised, Disrupted, and Watchful. In this case the city name was short enough so the "Infobar" could display all of that text (see attached), but if not the screen fits as many characters as possible and then ends the line with a series of periods (...)
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Modified Attributes for most Wonder units:
While re-arranging the early game Wonders (as described in several of the posts above), I also examined the associated Wonder Units and their attributes. The initial focus was on same-era units that had different attributes, such as Sargon's ability to enslave while his cultural contemporary Nebuchadnezzar could not. This led to a wider look at ALL the Wonder units, which identified additional issues:
- Too many ancient-era units could project a Zone of Control
- Many units had the Bombard ability prior to the existence of onager-type weapons
- A large number of units were given the semi-functional Siege attribute (only works for the AI)
In addition, the SC Team added a number of new attributes to the Units Database, none of which were being utilized in Cradle. Several in particular seemed quite useful:
- CanHarvest adds terrain gold to the treasury when entrenched. Basically a form of non-destructive pillaging.
- AlwaysHeal allows units to heal in the field even after moving. Not a complete "return to Health", but the same level of healing granted to a unit that didn't move at all.
- Sneakbombard supposedly allows units to bombard without war being declared, but unfortunately I could not get it to function. Would have been a nice addition for units like Sun Tzu and Genghis, but alas, no.
As you can see from the attachment, this was a comprehensive review in which the attributes of almost every Wonder Unit were adjusted to some degree.
Files changed: Units.txt & GL.txt
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Zone of Control Concept Entry:
Curiously, Zone of Control (or ZOC) is completely undefined in the CtP2 Manual, and is referred to only once in the Great Library (under the CONCEPT_ALLIANCE entry). Nevertheless, it's an important concept because ZOC is the "diamond" of 8 hexes which surround all units and cities (the latter are considered "units" by the CtP2 code). The default coding assumes that all units have an active ZOC, which means that units belonging to a different civ cannot move from one ZOC hex directly into another (see attached example). However, this default behavior can be altered in three ways:
1) Units with the IgnoreZOC attribute do exactly that - they can march from one ZOC hex into another with no restrictions. Most of the civilian units in Cradle have this attribute.
2) Units with the NoZoc attribute do NOT project a ZOC and units from any other civ can move through their 8 hex "diamond" without any restrictions. Most of the military units in Cradle have this attribute, since it improves AI pathfinding ability. The exceptions are Cities (all of which project an active ZOC), two of the largest naval units (Battleship and Dreadnaught) and 11 of the 30 Wonder Units.
3) ZOC restrictions also do not apply between units of civs bound by an Alliance.
Files changed: concept.txt, uniticon.txt, gl_str.txt, GL.txt & new 2D art
Last edited by Kull; April 28, 2024, 10:41.
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Scripto becomes Spartacus:
One of the more unusual Wonder Units is the Gladiator named Scripto who appears after a player builds the Colosseum. A curious choice, especially since research has failed to identify any reference to a gladiator with that name. Possibly it's something very obscure, like a name written on a wall next to a portrayal of a gladiator (such as seen in the ancient graffiti in Pompeii), but even so it's a real contrast to the other Wonder Units, all of whom portray well-known historical figures. At one time I considered changing the name to Spartacus, but that was a lot of work just for a name change. However, while reviewing the existing Wonder Unit attributes and considering new ones (a project to be reviewed in an upcoming post) an interesting option was to give this unit the "UndergroundRailway" attribute, and thus the ability to "free slaves".
That changes things completely, because the most famous slave revolt of ancient times was the rebellion led by Spartacus. It's obviously an imperfect analogy since this Wonder Unit frees slaves owned by OTHER civs, and thus isn't a threat to his owners. Even so it's an interesting ability, especially since this unit had no other special attributes and simply functioned as a powerful infantry unit (which wasn't historically true, anyway). Only two other units have this ability (Patriarch and the Abolitionist), and while the cost of this Special Attack is very low (50 gold per attempt), that is offset by relatively high "DeathChance" attributes for both units. For Spartacus however, we'll alter things by significantly reducing the chance of success to 15% and setting DeathChance to just 5%. So it becomes an interesting, low risk option for the player.
Worth noting that this is NOT the "SlaveUprising" special attack. Unfortunately (as described in post # 126) that attack is almost certain to fail and has other nasty side effects. Which is too bad, as otherwise it would be a perfect fit! Will also remove the "ExertsMartialLaw" attribute since historically rebellious gladiators weren't a reliable source of law and order in ancient cities. Lastly, there is also a button conflict between "Free Slaves" and "Reform City" (both at location 2-4), so the latter attribute will have to be removed from Spartacus.
Files changed: newsprite.txt, uniticon.txt, wonderunits.slc, wonderunits2.slc, Units.txt, gl_str.txt & GL.txt
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Hanging Gardens Wonder: This Wonder is associated with the Level 6 Aqueducts Advance, and thus can't be built until long after it historically appeared. Even worse, it grants a free Aqueduct in every city, which is pretty overpowered and realistically there's no connection between that benefit and this Wonder, since the historical structure was not a "Garden" but rather a Ziggurat.
Thus the logical shift is to the L3 Applied Math Advance which has no associated benefits and immediately follows Astronomy. That also suggests a more appropriate benefit: A 5% Science boost and a free scientist to the city which builds it, since this aligns with the benefits granted by the Ziggurat building in the prior Advance. In addition, we'll add Brick Making as a pre-req for Applied Math since you definitely need bricks for the Hanging Gardens! This will also ensure that the associated Nebuchadnezzar Wonder Unit does not appear until after his historical predecessors, Hammurabi (Code) and Khufu (Pyramids).
​Last edited by Kull; April 23, 2024, 12:40.
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Code of Hammurabi Wonder: This was originally associated with the L4 Jurisprudence Advance, but that means it appears long after its true historical era. Moving this to L2 Writing is a good fit because that Advance doesn't have any associated units or buildings. Obviously, one of the noteworthy things about the "Code" is that it was written down, so it's a logical link.
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Pyramids Wonder: This Wonder is associated with the L2 Brick Making Advance, yet the Pyramids were constructed from stone. By contrast, Ceremonial Burial is another L2 Advance and offers no direct benefits (buildings, Wonders, etc). Which is odd, because you'd be hard pressed to find a more exemplary structure to accompany this Advance than the Pyramids! Done (See attached).
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Stonehenge Wonder: Historically this is the oldest Wonder, yet it's associated with the Level 2 Astronomy Advance alongside the "Ziggurat", a building from a later period. The solution required the creation of a new Advance called Megaliths (see attached) placed at L1 in the "Construction" group alongside its immediate pre-req (Stone Working). Megaliths is a low cost Advance, but also a "dead end", so the player has to balance the desire for acquiring an early game Wonder versus potentially falling behind in the Tech Race.
As for Stone Working, that will become the pre-req for Religion (previously there wasn't one) which links the "Construction" series into the path leading to most of the building-granting Advances. The 2D art for Megaliths was taken from the Astronomy Advance, and replaced by new art featuring a Babylonian Star Disk.
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Adjustments to three Advances: Shifting Domestication from L2 to L1 and moving the Alexander Wonder from Republic to City State made a lot of sense but the extended playtest caused me to look closer at the Tech Tree positioning of several other Advances and Wonders (and thus their location in the historical timeline). Several stood out as an issue, and we'll start with a few of the Advances:
1) Slave Labor Advance: It seems odd that this would be a "Society" Advance, especially since historically the first instances on record are associated with Warfare. Instead we'll shift it over to the poorly populated "Energy" series (see attached), since that's what Slave Labor was really all about - "free" energy. Also, we'll remove the Stoneworking pre-req but keep Religion (a Level 1 Advance should not have two pre-reqs).
2) Jurisprudence Advance pre-req: In the earlier versions of Cradle the pre-req was changed from Monotheism to Judaism, but it's not clear why. Realistically, primitive Judaism is sort of assumed as the original form of Monotheism (hence the Temple of Solomon Wonder), but not the formalized version which appears after the Babylonian Captivity (as represented by the Torah). Will revert the pre-req back to Monotheism.
3) Christianity Advance pre-req: One of two pre-reqs is Monotheism, but that is already part of the sequence which leads to the other pre-req, Ethics. However, with its removal as a pre-req to Jurisprudence, Judaism is now a "dead-end" Advance, although historically it was the true precursor to Christianity. Will make Judaism the pre-req in place of Monotheism.
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The CtP2 Science Victory:
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Since the subject came up, let's take a closer look at the original CtP2 Science Victory. It requires a Wonder, 2 Buildings, and a Tile Improvement. Exactly the same as Birth of an Empire, just fewer quantities of each. So which Advances make them available?
1) Solaris Project Wonder (1): Requires the Gaia Controller Advance
2) Gaia Computer Building (10): Requires the Gaia Controller Advance
3) Power Satellite Building (10): Requires the Gaia Controller Advance
4) Processing Tower Tile Improvement (5): Requires the Gaia Controller Advance
All of them are unlocked after a single Advance. The question is, when does that Advance appear in the Tech Tree? The attachment answers the question. It is the final Advance in the standard CtP2 Tech Tree.
At that point there is literally nothing left to build or discover, so now and only now is it possible to win a Science Victory. By contrast, the Cradle version can be achieved roughly 1/3 of the way through the game, or it can be delayed and implemented at a later time, or bypassed altogether. In other words, the player does not have to run through the entire 5500-year game period in order to achieve a "non-conquest" win, but can "opt out" much earlier and still gain an official victory. As opposed to just getting bored and walking away. Given the two options - for me anyway - the Cradle system seems like a much better approach.​
Last edited by Kull; April 23, 2024, 12:43.
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Originally posted by Cyberguy00 View PostSo you can't have a futuristic science victory any more?
In fact, that's one of the main reasons for changing the "Arch" requirement. So long as the human player ensures that no AI civ has 25 or more cities, they cannot achieve the "Birth of an Empire" Victory, thus allowing the game to continue into the Modern Era and beyond.Last edited by Kull; April 19, 2024, 10:49.
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"Birth of an Empire" victory (Part 2):
The player can easily track the progress of this Victory by clicking the "Empire" button on the top left of the screen (see top image on the attachment) and then clicking the "Birth of an Empire" selection (or use the ctrl+g hotkeys).
The original screen (see 2nd image) was very "techy" in appearance (as befits a late game Science Victory) and Hexagonian modified it for Cradle 3 (see 3rd image). That was better, but it's been improved even further for Cradle 5 (see 4th image). We now have a better mix of colors and thinner frames which keep the text from bleeding into them.
Looking closer at the last image, you'll see a large yellow circle in the bottom right of the game map window. This is the 10-hex "cultural radius" surrounding the one colony, and covers 6% of the map (see the "Cultural Coverage" value in the box just above the top right corner of the map). As additional colonies are built, new areas of yellow appear on the map. For example, the third image shows a map in which 94 colonies were built, and the "Cultural Coverage" comprises 81% of the map. Please note that "coverage" is the total amount of "yellow" on the map (not a sum of individual radii), so that two adjacent colonies will project a nearly identical radius. Separating your colonies will provide coverage to a much greater area.
When all elements of the Victory have been satisfied, the color of the "Declare Empire" button at the top of the tracking screen will change to Gold (same color as the "Build Manager" button on the bottom). Clicking the button will start a countdown and so long as all elements of the Victory remain intact, you will win the game in 5 turns.
Lastly, a new "Victory Movie" has been created for "Birth of an Empire". This was made by editing the opening sequence of the CtP1 intro movie, which features a trireme approaching an unknown shore and culminates with a centurion planting a staff bearing the CTP symbol.
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"Birth of an Empire" victory (Part 1):
As noted earlier, Cradle has replaced the late-game CtP2 "Science Victory" with the ancient-era "Birth of an Empire", which essentially means a player has been able to duplicate the Roman Empire at its height. All of the pieces required for the Science Victory have been renamed to better fit this new incarnation, and that includes the enabling Advances, various Costs, and everything else. This turned out to be a much more complicated system than I first realized, plus several changes have been made for Cradle 5. Accordingly, let's review all the main features:
1) Once a player discovers the "Tribunal Empire" Advance, they can build the Pax Romana Wonder (the CtP2 Solaris Project). That Wonder is the first element in the Birth of an Empire Victory option, and it must be completed before any of the other requirements can be constructed. What I did NOT realize is that "Wonder completion" allows EVERY PLAYER - not just the Wonder owner - to pursue this victory! Very important to remember that.
2) The second required element is that a player has to construct an Arch building in 25 cities (the CtP2 Gaia Computer). The building can only be constructed following completion of Pax Romana AND if the player has discovered the "Concrete" Advance (changed from "Bureaucracy" in Cradle 3/4). In addition, a city can only build an Arch if it already has a Shrine, a Granary, a Bazaar, a Ziggurat and a Work Camp in the City Inventory. Arches are very expensive to build (Production Cost = 2000) and maintain (Upkeep = 15)
3) The third required element is for the player to construct a minimum of 25 Magistrates (see attached). This was called the Power Satellite in CtP2, and the Monument in Cradle 3/4. These have the "Bureaucracy" Advance pre-req, and again, can only be built after a Civ has completed Pax Romana. Technically these are buildings, but they do NOT appear in the City Inventory, meaning they operate in every way just like a building that is listed after # 64 in buildings.txt (see description of that particular problem in Post # 223). It would have been nice if this "building" could have moved to the end of that list (thus freeing a slot for something else), but alas it didn't work, despite tons of tweaking and testing. Importantly, there is NO LIMIT to the number which can be built by any single city, so long as that city already has Conscripted Labor, an Arena, a Forum and a Physician in the City Inventory. Unlike the Arch, there is also a "maximum" value associated with Magistrates: If the player constructs 50 or more, that doubles the "cultural coverage" provided by each Colony (more on that next).
4) The fourth requirement is for the player to construct at least 10 Colonies (the CtP2 Processing Tower). These are Tile Improvements, have the "Civic Engineering" Advance pre-req, and as with the others, can only be built after somebody has completed Pax Romana (also see post # 156 for a different way to create Colonies). Each Colony projects a 10-hex "cultural radius", and this can double to 20 hexes if a player constructs 50 or more Magistrates. In addition to the count of colonies, this victory element requires that 50% of the map be covered by the cultural radius.
That's all well and good, but since Magistrates are not listed in the City Inventory, how can you keep track of how many were built? Even worse, the "cultural radius" does not appear on the game map! How then is it possible to monitor progress toward this victory, much less attain it? Fortunately that's not a problem, as we'll see in the next post.
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