Possible new units

[The Big Mc]

What about a spy unit. The balloon goes into an enemy city posing as a travailing circus and looks at what the city has got from a few hundred feet in the air.

[SMIFFGIG]

what do i use to view the sprites ?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
what do i use to view the sprites ?

Unfortunatly we don't have a sprite viewer, therefore the only tool to view a sprite is the game itsself.

-Martin

[Daftpanzer]

I havent had time to read through all of this thread yet (apologies if i am repeating something)

Personally I always liked the idea of more gradual development of units and not so big steps up. In civ2 i tried to make scenarios that had early, modern and furuistic tanks, and went from biplane to ww2 fighter to jet fighter to f22 style futuristic fighter.

I think there is room for 2 or more gun infantry units in ctp2. Gunpowder could give you a basic musketeer or arquebusier unit, that still needs the protection of pikemen. Im not an expert but I know that pikeman/musketeer combination was still being used after 1700 at least, musketeers as a close-combat unit in those times would still be mauled to pieces. Not until they got improved guns and bayonets and better tactics did you get the all-rounder infrantryman style unit of ctp2.

Maybe there could be a napoleonic style infantryman and a american civil war breech-loading rifle type unit, both these units instead of just the infantryman?

I think maybe there could be a ww1 style infantry unit as well as the machine gunner, representing better tactics (not everyone in a big line charging the enemy so much).

This unit would stay useful until you get marines or more general modern 'assault troops' as I liked to have in civ2 (representing modern assault rifles, thermal imaging etc and better armour).

I like the idea of zepplins too. They had a short lifespan in our reality, but what if aeroplane development had lagged behind by 30 years or more?

Overall I think more units, more gradual development would be great, but not so much as to make your existing units obsolete every few turns!

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Daftpanzer
I like the idea of zepplins too. They had a short lifespan in our reality, but what if aeroplane development had lagged behind by 30 years or more?

what if the hindenburg hadn't blown up at lake hurst and there would have been no ww2?

zeppelins would have been the primary way of intercontinental passenger transport for some decades!

ok, thats maybe not so interesting in terms of warfare, but I'd really like to do a cruise on a luxury class zeppelin

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
...but I'd really like to do a cruise on a luxury class zeppelin

I would love to cruise in a luxury class Zeppelin myself. I have spent the best part of a day in a modern day dirigible (as they called it) - definitely worth the price of admission – if you get the chance, jump at it (not out of it though ).

Balloons played a big recon role in WW1 and even before that. I believe they unquestionably belong in the game. Empire Earth has some balloons that could be used for sprites.

[Devil of Truth]

I have a dream … I’ve always wanted the unit upgrade process to be more unit specific and gradual.

For example:
* The default unit is a Tank (or an Infantryman, or Knight whatever).
* By researching something (or spending money; or both), you can upgrade to a Mark 1 Tank. Same unit, but a better engine = +1 movement.
* More research (or money), your Mark 1 Tank becomes a Mark 2 and gets some extra armour = +1 defence.
* Throw some more scientists or cash at the problem, and the Mark 3 Tank proves that the size of your gun really is important = +1 attack.
Etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Doing this would allow more differentiation between similar units; making battles a little more interesting; and could even allow an older Mark 3+ unit to defeat a newer default unit.

However, I think the programming behind this would be gruelling and it could give the player too many unnecessary, micro-management choices. Add to that a guppy-brained AI and the idea starts sounding like the Titanic.

If only…

[mapfi]

More or less your talking of a unit shop like SMAC has, only that with that game you get it properly implemented.
As for the work involved - rewriting the tech tree and all the new units won't be harder than the work e.g. for that part of cradle but it 'd be a lot of work.
Dale's developping something along those lines for his AOM mod. Might want to read that thread.

[Daftpanzer]

I think it would be great if different civs might upgrade their units in different ways like that, with different methods to try out. Battles between tanks with extra firepower and tanks with extra armour would be cool... the different civs trying to find the most effective type of tank to build.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

there is one big problem in tinkering with the different tanks (or whatever):
the way the units appear on the battlescreen!
i often enough had really planned which units to stack for what i thought could be a really effective mix of weapons for a specific task just to see the game place my artillery in the frontline and stuff like that. does anybody know how the units are placed in the combat screen and if that can perhaps be done manually? (though thats unneccessary and timeconsuming for most battles)

btw: i really wonder why in naval battles when i go to battle with my standard small recon fleet (1 destroyer, 1 patrolboat(? not sure whats their english name, my vanilla game used to be in german)) against one single vessel they didn't line up behind each other, both of them have bombard capabillity!)

[Pedrunn]

I’ve always wanted the unit upgrade process to be more unit specific and gradual.

We could create a order called upgrade. By using this order a message pop up telling you your possibilities of upgrade.
You choose one and you rplace the old unit by a brand new and upgraded one.
It is totally possible and i must say that the SLIC will be very simple yet repetitive therefore handful.

Not to mention the thougths that must be in the tech tree, in the upgrade line and the massive number of new units you will need in the unit.txt (not hard though just a lot of cut and paste).

Yet totally possible.

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by Pedrunn
Yet totally possible.

Whoohoo! Christmas came early this year.

[The Big Mc]

Hindenburg disaster was all the Americans fault. If it had been maid using helium like they wanted and not hydrogen which the Americans forced them to use by not trading the needed helium.

[Dale]

DOT & Mapfi:

Yes, I've got something similar to what you say in AOM, but not done the same way. Yes, the unit will upgrade after relevant research (IE: +50% defence on researching Primitive Steel for Hoplites). No, you don't get promted. No, it won't cost to upgrade. Yes, I use the SAME sprite (harder to tell what Civ has what upgrade). Yes, I'm using Peter's upgrade SLIC for when a new unit becomes available (major tech breakthrough, IE: From Bireme to Coracle when Sails are researched).

It works well.

[Devil of Truth]

Dale, thanks for the 411. Just a thought: Would it be better to offer the choice to upgrade to the human player (the AI gets the upgrade regardless, off course); and charge for it? Do you think it would add or subtract from the game? Or is it just too cumbersome to implement? Can’t wait for AOM!