Medieval Pack II: A Call to Arms

[Cube]

Re: Debriefing after 2 full games

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
I was hoping that there was some way to make changes to the timeline settings to start at 5000BC or earlier to see it that would help the AI's compete, but that doesn't appear to be possible without changing the source code in ctp2.exe.

You can do this in the MM2_difdb.txt file It has a line that says starting year -4000, change this to -5000 or earlier. -5000 will add 40 turns to the game.

[Gen.Dragolen]

Thanks.

Cube,

Thanks for the info. That was probably one of the few files I hadn't looked at in the last couple of nights. I knew there was a reason for being NetOps and not Programming...

Should be interesting to see what happens as I am upto the 1800's in game #3 and I'm right about where history was in the late Industrial Age. Nearest AI is still in early Medieval Age.

The main difference seems to be the AI's use of improvements: the don't build any ports where as I have as many as I can afford. I'm down to a couple of turns for most of the advances for the Industrial Age.

I'm hoping that the AI will have a better chance later in the game if it has the extra turns. Only other option is to make the early advances cheaper to research. I may have to use the coeffs in MM2_difdb.txt to tune the balance of play.

Good hunting.

[StarGazer]

Foreign Settlers in 7/18 MM2 - Need Help

In the 7/18 MM2 update, although I have Peace Treaties with all the AI civs and a No Trespassing agreement, one or more of the AI civs keep sending Settlers through my territory. If I understood him correctly, DALE said that AI units are supposed to be ousted automatically after ten turns have passed from the time that the offending AI has agreed to remove the trespassing unit. However, that doesn't seem to be the case with Settlers. They just ponderously move across the entire expanse of my empire, seeking a place to settle.

Actually, I don't want them to wander through my territory, because sometimes I will have a "hole" or two where an AI Settler could conceivably settle, and, by doing so, take to itself part of my territory (the squares immediately surrounding its new AI city). This could be a nuisance.

So, how do I handle trespassing of this kind in a peaceful way, i.e., without having to kill off the AI Settler, thus breaking my Peace Treaty and precipitating a war? Can Settlers be sued? Or booted? Thanks!

[Pedrunn]

Re: Thanks.

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
So, how do I handle trespassing of this kind in a peaceful way, i.e., without having to kill off the AI Settler, thus breaking my Peace Treaty and precipitating a war? Can Settlers be sued? Or booted? Thanks!.

Just expell them. All warfare units have this option. and no you cant sue them. just expell or kill it

[WesW]

Cube is right about the happiness improvements. I restricted the order of them to force the AI to build the most cost-effective improvements first.

Several people have reported the AIs falling behind in science after the Medieval age. I looked through the strategies.txt, and saw that I had not allocated as many specialists to the AIs as I thought I had. I have changed this, and made more of the specialists scientists, so hopefully the AIs will start producing more science. There are not adequate settings available to get the AIs to build commerce TIs like they should, so I have to try and get them to use specialists instead.

[Bluevoss]

Wes,

Just finished a game on the latest 6/18 patch, and really enjoyed it. I'll probably start another tonight.

Speaking of the fix you mentioned for the late game AI tech slump, are you going to make a patch for this? Any idea when?

Thanks again for the good work.

[StarGazer]

Comments on SCI and TI

Originally posted by WesW
Several people have reported the AIs falling behind in science after the Medieval age. I looked through the strategies.txt, and saw that I had not allocated as many specialists to the AIs as I thought I had. I have changed this, and made more of the specialists scientists, so hopefully the AIs will start producing more science. There are not adequate settings available to get the AIs to build commerce TIs like they should, so I have to try and get them to use specialists instead.

Am playing third game. Impossible, 5 civs, huge map, Marauder Barbarians, MM2 6/18 update, regular (not large civs) game.

Am at 1800 A.D. Peace treaties with the AI civs since the Ancient Age. Goal is Science Victory.

In the early game, the AIs and I kept pace in Science by exchanging Advances. They all seemed to have the advantage, especially the Arabs, so I had to make sure that I was building an Advance that none of them were so that I could exchange it with them later.

Around 200 B.C., things changed. The Arabs, always the strongest in Science, and I started to pull ahead of the Scots, English, and Native Americans. The Arabs had switched to City State as soon as it could. I kept with Monarchy, as did the others, because I liked its higher production.

The frequent Barbarian attacks in this game have forced me to keep upgrading my military and to remain at a state of war. This has slowed me down, since in my previous two games (Medium and Hard levels, both with next-to-easiest Barbarians) I had downgraded the military to Peace as soon as I had built the Great Wall and had established Peace Treaties with all the AI civs.

Do the Barbarians ever stop appearing? I mean, is there a cut-off date, or do they continue to maraud until 2200 AD?

Unlike the AI civs, I have built a solid, fairly balanced infrastructure of TIs (food, commerce, and production) for every city. The inability of the AI civs to build production and commerce TIs well is glaringly evident, e.g., mines on all eight Plains tiles of a city but nothing on the hills or mountains of another city; not a single Trading Post anywhere. Food TIs they seem to do OK at: nets and farms.

I think that the game is set to allow the AIs to "cheat" at building Wonders. For example, I'll be halfway through building a Wonder when one of them will start building it, too, and then with about 10 or 10 turns left for me to complete the Wonder, the AI will announce that it has just about finished building it. If I have enough money to pay for its immediate completion, I'll get the Wonder; if not, they get it. I'm not complaining, mind you. It's just a factor that I hadn't noticed at the easier levels of my first two games.

It hurt a lot when the Arabs got Galileo's Telescope. Since then, they have had the lead in Science. They are currently (1800 AD) about five Advances ahead of me because about 50 turns ago I decided to slow down Science to 40% (we're both in a Democracy now) in order to be able to buy CIs and military units for the ten cities I had recently founded. Gad, it takes a lot of building to bring a city up to par, especially in a Democracy! At times, I'm tempted to return to Absolute Monarchy, whose higher production levels I really appreciate. In any case, am now going to shift Science back to 90% and see what happens.

So the Science situation stands as follows: Arabs, 5 ahead of me; my civ is about 5 ahead of the Scots (almost always in third place for Science); the Scots are about 10 Advances ahead of the English and the Native Americans, whose scientific progress is miserable (I keep helping them out when they ask for Advances). The Arabs and I are now (1800 AD) researching the second column of Modern Age Advances, e.g., Mass Production, Mass Transit, etc. The Scots are on the first column. The English and NAs are still working on Renaissance Advances.

The Arabs and my civ are on the same, immense continent; they control 3/4 of it, unfortunately -- mostly small, undeveloped cities spread out as widely as possible and next to Trade icons, if possible. Their Trade income must be stupendous. Mine is paltry, deriving from only four sources, my own cities -- to avoid piracy and embargo and the high production cost of building enough caravans to start routes with the AI cities. I have 19 cities; the Arabs, 24. Mine vary in pop size from 8 to 24; the Arabs', from 1 to 13.

I think that I will be able to build the Gaia Controller first, however, since I'm hoping that my civ's superior infrastructure (almost every tile of every city is developed) and the eventual founding and fast development (I love those mega sea mines!) of ocean cities will turn the tide in the end game.

But, at this point, lemme tell ya, the Arabs are sure giving me a run for the money!

[Bluevoss]

Heh.

I just finished my first CTP2 game (started lots of times, but MedMod kept it going this time). Medium with four races. Anyway, as expected, I eventually got a huge lead over the others. Since I wanted to start a tougher game soon, I decided to go for the diplomatic victory. The problem there was with the Phonicians and the Turks, who were in a 1000 year shooting war, exchanging cities back and forth. I had peace treaties with both, but once I got an alience, that races would demand that I attack the other and I wouldn't and that was that. Finally, I got attacked by the phonicians in the same round that the turks agreed to an alience. And that was it for the phonicians. I had a hundred year jump on them, and using bombers to soften cities up really helps.

Also learned that you can destroy cities pretty quick - just put enough entertainers to keep them from rioting, and everything else goes into labor points. Build settler units and when they come available, disband them to help move the next one into completion. Besides that and the starvation, eventually the city fades away. Make sure you sell stuff off as you go.

The real problem was the Dutch, who sprang into the game from a rioting Phonician city. I had aliences with everyone but them, but they would not budge beyond a peace treaty. I even offered them 40,000gp! I worked on them until it was 2am, but nothing. Discusted, I went to bed.

When I woke up, I realized the 'out'. You only need to make aliences with everyone on the planet. Everyone living, you know? So I got my carriers and rangers into position, and right before I launced, I tried once more - instead of kind, I was angry. They refused. Then I told them it was war, and they blinked and said "wait just a minute... uh, you got a pen?"

Started my next game - Hard with 10 races. Gotta admit I'm really enjoying this!

[Dale]

Deleted.

[StarGazer]

Re: Comments on SCI

Originally posted by StarGazer
Am playing third game. Impossible, 5 civs, huge map, Marauder Barbarians, MM2 6/18 update, regular (not large civs) game.

Peace treaties with the AI civs since the Ancient Age. Goal is Science Victory.

UPDATE to previous post about 3rd game (see above).

Now at Turn 505 (1925 AD). Just entered Information Age.

The Arabs and Native Americans are still at war with each other. So are the English and the Scots. Means very little, though, since they seldom fight (too large a map for much fighting, I've discovered).

SCIENCE Ranking:

1. Arabs and my civ (Americans) are tied -- both researching Automatic Rifles and other 1st-column Information Age Advances.

2. Scots: 9 Advances behind us. Researching 3rd-column Modern Age Advances.

3. English: 24 Advances behind us. Researching 1st-column Modern Age Advances.

4. Native Americans 29 Advances behind us. Researching 1st-column Modern Age Advances.

It takes both the Arabs and me about 16 turns to research a 1st-column Information Age Advance. My Science is set at 90%.

The Scots, English, and NAs should be further behind in Science. They aren't, because about every 10th Turn, one of them will ask me for an Advance, which I will give them (since they are so far behind) in exchange for map info.

Arabs have surpassed their city limit under Democracy: 31 cities.
My civ has 21 cities under Democracy. Since most of the land area has already been colonized by the AI civs, who spread out like wildfire as soon as they could, and since building up a new city under a Democracy quickly requires a tremendous outlay of cash and Public Works points, I am currently biding my time, waiting until I can build ocean cities.

ECONOMICALLY, my civ is now way ahead. I started pulling ahead of the Arabs in 1907 AD. Arabs, 2nd (now at about 50% -- halfway point -- on Economics Ranking Chart). Scots, 3rd (40%). English and NAs, tied for 4th (25%).

MILITARILY, Arabs are in 1st place, evidently because of having 31 cities (automatic militia). The other AI civs and I are tied at about the 40% mark on the Military Ranking graph. I have at least two military units in each city, one of them a Rifleman, the other usually a Musketeer. Am still at War status, since I still don't know whether the Barbarians ever stop appearing on the scene. I haven't seen any since the Middle Ages, however.

That's the progress report. Will keep you posted.

[StarGazer]

MM2 ERRATA

WES --

Since I'm still new to the game, I'm starting to get a bit confused by discrepancies I've found between the way the 7/18 game is "behaving" and the Excel charts. When I downloaded Part 5: TEXTS July 18th Update, I thought that the Excel charts would indicate the changes in the .TXT files, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I rely on the Excel charts (which I've printed out) to guide me through the game.

I've discovered that you need to reverse the Fusion Plant and the Nanite Factory so that the Fusion Plant comes after the Nanite Factory. Your Excel Advances chart states the situation correctly, but the Excel City Improvements chart (under Production) and, in some respects, the .TXT files are wrong. I had to make the changes by typing them in so that I could finish my current game correctly. I hope I did it right. I typed them into both the BUILDINGS.TXT and the MM2_BUILDINGS.TXT files.

Also, in my 7/18 update game (I used ModSwapper before starting), even though I'm now researching Advances in the final column of the Information Age, the Drug Store improvement never appeared. I didn't know how to make this change, so I just left it. I don't even know what the Drug Store improvement does. The Advances and City Improvement Excel charts make no mention of Drug Store (under Pharmaceuticals).

THANKS!

[Bluevoss]

Well, had an interesting bit 'o game today. Was marching (around 1500bc) on the Americans (thats always wierd in the early game). Anyway, had about six units in the main army, spearmen, swordsmen, and archers. Since we were crossing a huge plains area, I had 2 chariot units rolling about on the flanks.

The advance on boston ( ) went well. Crushed a smaller army of spearmen and chariots - just the sort of ancient battle I enjoyed. Anyway, got outside the town of boston and guess what - the phalanx units in town suddenly marched out and engaged us (and kicked our Aztec butts!). I watched the destruction of my main army column with a mixture of pleasure (that the game was fighting back) and anoyance (I'd brought them so far, just to have them die emass in the open prairie).

I figured that I would build up another army. Meanwhile, the chariots would do my favorite trick - roll through the heartland and pillage. That would slow them down for my next invasion. Well, the next turn, a phalanx unit marched out and speared one chariot. The second had a little room - he fell back but rapidly ran out of running room against the sea. Cornered by phalaxes, he turned and charged. And the fog of war flowed back in the hide the destruction.

Wonderful work on the MedMod. Its been some time since I was outmanovered in the field by the AI. In face, I ended up signing a cease fire with the Americans and turning my attention on the Mexicans (being Aztecs, I find this a little "Back to the Futureish").

Whats really fun - I took one of the two polinisian cities on my boarder. The other one I signed an accord with, rather than sqaushing him. Turns out it was a good move - we've been trading science and maps ever since.

Its great to see the game fight back and the diplomacy work. Thanks again to Wes and his team!

[WesW]

Please place new replies in the 1.1 thread.

[Caranorn]

problem building some city improvements

Wes, I've been trying out your Med Mod II for the past two days and may have noticed a mistake (or something that you did not mention in your read me).

So far I noticed in two games (short ones yet) that some cities could not build city walls and possibly aqueducts (certain on city walls, in the current game I have the advance and 2 out of my 4 cities can't build the walls). This seems rather strange so I expect it's not intentional.

Otherwise the game runs fine, I expect the ruins now use SLIC code as they sometimes (always when a mercenary is to appear) cause a serious slow down of the game (the first times I thought it had crashed). But I find that little slow down is a minor inconvenience so far (though it's rather strange to have the game slow during the ai's turn and be almost certain that it just stepped onto a ruin).

I will eventually change some of the terrain tile benefits slightly for my games I expect as I hate coastal cities to be virtually useless and forest/jungle cities to grow so slowly (raising their food to 10 should not hurt considering that plains and grassland can easily be irigated).

I'll go back to playing now.

Thanks once more for the great work.

Marc B.

P.S.; And yes that means I should be back for a bit. I just bought a new Macintosh G4 last week and it's fast enough to emulate Win98 and run CTP II at a decent speed (huge map and 10 civs so far, maybe even good enough for more).

P.P.S.: Wes there seems to be a problem with your Apolyton email (the link at your page). I tried to mail this direct to you and had it bounced back.

[Ta'bas]

Help??

I added additional units to the MedPack 2 when I start a new game the units do not show up in the city manager queue. What am I doing wrong? I only edited the newsprites.txt, unit.txt, unitcon.txt, gl_str, Glibrary.txt, and unitbuildlist. Is there something else I need to edit? As of now the units are only accessible in the editor queue(cheat tool). And when I reload the slice from the editor queue the unit will only appear in the city manager queue for one turn.