question

[Flubber]

Originally posted by d=me
So the terrain enchancements should be built first before the base enchancements? I always liked to let all of my base have all the advanced facilities after they are researched (ie, research hospital, fusion lab, hybird forest) as soon as possible. Like if your base doesn't have all of the facilities how can it expand and produce better tech?

By crawling additional resources. I build all those facilities but they come so much faster when your base is crawling an additional 12 minerals a turn. Generally I crawl food and minerals early. Food speeds growth while minerals lets you produce things faster. At an early turn your facilities approach might be producing more tech than me but thats a temporary situation if your base is producing 3 minerals and mine are producing 8 .


Note also that facilities real early are a waste. If your base only has 4 energy coming in with a 50 % allocation that means that a network node will take 2 labs and make them 3. For the same mineral cost I can crawl 2 energy and 2 minerals with some minerals left over.

So my base compared to yours has 6 energy coming in with 3 money and 3 labs plus 2 additional minerals a turn (and a headstart on the next build if I recall the nodes mineral cost correctly-- isn't it 8 rows) while yours still has 4 energy making 2 money (minus any network node maintenance) and 3 Labs.

So my base makes more money, as many labs and more minerals per turn . Now you would be right to say that your numbers get better as your base expands and you would be correct but, I would advocate that you immediately build a colony pod when your base grows to size two (and the comparison betwwn my two base combo of two size ones and your single size 2 base with a node would be even less in your favor) . Second, when I am prepared to expand my base, its higher mineral capacity will mean that I will catch you in facilities

For these and many other reasons, it is usually best to build infrastructure first.

Note also that I am an advocate of specializing bases. I see no sense in building all the research enhancing facilities in ALL bases. sacrilege?? Consider if you have a base with a node, fusion lab and research hospital ( base "A")and one without those things ( Base "B"). On a pure labs basis, do you get a better return on investment with Base B building those things OR in having Base B build crawlers and crawl its best energy sources into the existing facilities in base "A"? Imagine base B has 3 tiles that produce 4 energy each. It would cost hundreds of minerals to build the 3 facilities in that base but a mere 90 ( 9 rows-- you know what I mean) to get that 12 energy through those other facilities and you then have less maintenance. You can then use the additional minerals to crawl food or minerals or create morale enhancing facilities

If you don't believe one base can research well , then you have never seen a one city challenge-- Often you will have a single base producing a tech a turn through crawling energy through ALL the research facilities

[Flubber]

Originally posted by d=me
What should I build? The solar collector or the mine with the farm? Or the forest?

Never farm +mine-- argghhh

General rules

Forest is good
Farms on rainies or nutrient bonuses
Mines or boreholes on rocky tiles
Solar collectors infrequently

Generally the idea is that you might work forests and boreholes and maybe a farm/solar combo and you will always crawl mines on rocky tiles and often crawl food

[CEO Aaron]

d=me, from some of your posts here, I think you've got a lot of groundwork to do before your game is up to speed. For starters, read Velocyrix guide here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/96102.html

Then you can take in some of the articles at the SMAC Academy:

http://www.civgaming.net/smac/academy.shtml

Those are the basics. Read those and put the concepts outlined therein to use, and you'll be ready to come here and discuss strategy.

[d=me]

That site recommends Dem/Planned/Wealth for the university. But what about the efficiency when you use planned? And which future society should I choose? The guide didn't say. I guess it's cybernetic? http://www.civgaming.net/smac/acad_se.shtmlIf I use planned then I can't be friends with morgan.

[Zoetrope]

d=me:

Some general principles, in accord with my usual style of play in SMAC/X:

0. Know yourself, know your enemy, yes, yes, but also know your situation.

In particular, know the differences between advantageous and disadvantageous choices at each stage of a game of SMAC/X.

1. Paraphrasing Vel: make every turn count.

2. In the early game (before crawlers), food is a high priority to get the population up.

3. Then minerals to build items more quickly.

4. To increase food and minerals, you need to terraform.

5. Throughout the game, you will always have uses for terraforming.

6. Build as many formers as you can support while still alllowing bases to build other things at an acceptable pace.

7. Keep minerals coming, to support the units. (Keep those formers busy being useful: that means, control them yourself.) Forest, kelp and fungus grow on their own, but everything else needs tender loving care.

8. Build facilities when and where they will multiply your resources, and not merely drain your energy income.

As Flubber indicated: a network node, or a holo, or an energy bank, or a research hospital or a hybrid forest, built prematurely, will cost more than it returns.

If you build every facility everwhere as soon as it's available, you will (to transplant a quote of Yang's) be "needlessly crippling yourself". (Indeed, you'll be cash-poorer than Yang if you do that!)

9. Likewise, don't go to Democracy when it would significantly shrink base productivity. Wait until your colonisation phase has stabilised; then terraform around each base so that it has enough minerals to afford Democracy's malus (negative feature) of diminished support.

10. Democracy with Planned and Children's Creches is a recipe for population boom, which is good, but you can only populate bases that have sufficient food. So, again, you must terraform first, to make this SE choice viable.

11. The value of an SE has to be weighed up against the others, and the balance shifts during the game, both strategically and numerically. For example, Free Market is most profitable (energy-wise) for compact empires; Green for very widespread settlement.

Either Wealth or Knowledge may bring in more energy, depending: look at the numbers to know. Wealth gives more industry. If Knowledge is giving more research, it is also more vulnerable to probe teams, so unless the University has the Hunter-Seeker Knowledge carries a high risk. The (frequency of) that risk is reduced on a large map if you are far from foes, but the game engine from the outset tells the AI exactly where you are, so you can't hide.

12. As the University, go for HSA asap, and in the meantime build lots of probe teams. Defensively, you can design very cheap probe infantry. Also, forward sensors, units stacked in pairs, mobile probe teams to explore, and mindworms (captured or bred) which cannot be bought or captured, provide a good, flexible frontline before the more advanced techs of mid-game (such as aircraft).

That's a start, but SMAC/X is such a complex game, strategically; after many games, one is still gaining valuable new play skills.

[binTravkin]

I will never accept the idea that a uni player plus VW and PTS is game over

As far as I read, noone ever pretended it in this thread, but once you talk of it, you should realise that this particular combo alone makes the already overpowered Uni several times more powerful if used properly (rapid base spawning is usually the key).

[Flubber]

Originally posted by binTravkin

As far as I read, noone ever pretended it in this thread, but once you talk of it, you should realise that this particular combo alone makes the already overpowered Uni several times more powerful if used properly (rapid base spawning is usually the key).

If you accept your premise, that means that pretty much any decent university player is unbeatable since they should usually get these SPs.

I'm a stubborn sort and I don't accept that any faction is that overpowered.

You should realize that there have been VERY experienced players make claims about other factions being "unbeatable" if played correctly. I like to think there are far more elements to the game

[Chaunk]

Originally posted by Flubber
If you accept your premise, that means that pretty much any decent university player is unbeatable since they should usually get these SPs.

I'm a stubborn sort and I don't accept that any faction is that overpowered.

You should realize that there have been VERY experienced players make claims about other factions being "unbeatable" if played correctly. I like to think there are far more elements to the game

And that is exactly why it's still being played. There is so much depth and variety that even more than 6 years after the game was released people are still quibbling strategies, coming up with "unbeatable combinations" etc. If only Civ4 was more like SMACX, but alas I fear it's a whole lot more bland.

And anyway, everyone knows the cult are unbeatable. Clearly.

[Lazerus]

In a OCC challenge they do have an extremely strong case

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Lazerus
In a OCC challenge they do have an extremely strong case

All 14 factions can say the same

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Chaunk


And anyway, everyone knows the cult are unbeatable. Clearly.

hmm while I have lost as the university , I am unbeaten as the cult in PBEM play . .. (perhasps that had more to do with the fact that in my university game my opposition was buster while in the cult games my opposition were folks I no longer remember)

[Flubber]

Oh and to be be fair I think the cult would be very playable in a pbem on a small or tiny map with average or more native life. But on such settings you might not see anyone choose the university as they might more likely opt for the spartans, believers and Hive

[Kataphraktoi]

you can win 2130-40 with cult on those settings. smax as it is,has to much sameness-always builder maps for example

And that is exactly why it's still being played. There is so much depth and variety that even more than 6 years after the game was released people are still quibbling strategies, coming up with "unbeatable combinations" etc. If only Civ4 was more like SMACX, but alas I fear it's a whole lot more bland.

My dad put cIV down the other day,as it got repetitive.i could only give him a ''Ive been playing smac for 4 years and cIV is out in a week?'' with a

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
you can win 2130-40 with cult on those settings.

You can but not against a human controlled Hive, Spart or Believers. A human controlling any of those would also be aware of the settings and any neighbor would quickly be popping out the scout patrols and probably beeline to things like mobility and trance. I still like the cults chances but I can't see taking out several factions in a 30 year time frame

[Kataphraktoi]

I was more referring to SP