question

[Kataphraktoi]

6.Finally - Orbital Spaceflight, if you've went for D:AP early missing out the almost dogmatic resource lifting b-line (you can always steal them, can't you? trade at least!),

your going to be paying an arm and a leg(maybe a couple) for those techs. as for stealing them,i would expect youll need a fair ammount of COP units yourself.

[binTravkin]

except 2 players tech trading can surpass or match a univ,and then where are you?

Yes, the university player as generally any good player should be ready for agressive diplomatical maneuvers, probe actions and smashing enemies before they can take up the fight as it is the only way to victory if you know others will gang up on you if you get too big.

Dont underestimate +3econ\+3 industry.

I do not underestimate it.
Winning with Uni is all about being first.
There are two ways to fight this - cooperation and probes.
In 1v1 you don't have much cooperation, nor you can get to probes fast enough for it to make any difference.
The fact that uni will grab VW + PTS before Drones even have IA will decide the fate of the game I believe.
+3 ind/ +3 econ is a big bonus, but it's not big enough to be bigger than +1 ind / +3 econ / +80% research (1.2 * 1.5 = 1.8)/ no drones and at least double population.

In more than 2 player game Drones in cooperation with say Morgan can (and mostly will) smack Uni on equal skill levels.

[binTravkin]

as for stealing them,i would expect youll need a fair ammount of COP units yourself.

There are always a couple of theievery masters around, who could elaborate on the topic..

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi

Ironic that univ is my fav, but im arguing against them.

They are also one of my favs but I agree with what you say.

A university player MUST get an early game infrastructure or SP advanatage out of the early game as what will happen is all the other players will trade tech to catch up.

Its interesting to see someone saw the university is THE most powerful when I'm betting that a lot of people would say the other best contender for that title is the DRONES which is almost an opposite faction

[Kataphraktoi]

Its interesting to see someone saw the university is THE most powerful when I'm betting that a lot of people would say the other best contender for that title is the DRONES which is almost an opposite faction

this is because in 4x games, a faction that specalizes in 1 categorie(build,discover,explore,conquer) ussualy has a edge up on the rest,particularily if that categorie is favoured by the game. in smac, i feel building and discovering are the two most favoured traits so any faction geared towards either of these is bound to be good.

with drones,i find an ICS->popboom puts me in the lead in a big way-i dont have as much tech,but the usefullness of the tech i do have can be better apreciated as its easier to deploy. i would say that ive seen alot of people in PBEMs even back when i didnt play,that gave drones a healthy respect when present...

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi

with drones,i find an ICS->popboom puts me in the lead in a big way-i dont have as much tech,but the usefullness of the tech i do have can be better apreciated as its easier to deploy. i would say that ive seen alot of people in PBEMs even back when i didnt play,that gave drones a healthy respect when present...

yes -- But even though people Knew their faction attributes it was tough to be scared of that faction that was so far behind in tech-- Then the drone player might do some massive tech trades or steal from the AI and suddenly that industrial capacity came alive. By the time the other players realized that the drone player was in the game , that industrial capacity was eating them up.

I will never accept the idea that a uni player plus VW and PTS is game over

[d=me]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
d=me, the only problem you have is not enough units,and not agressive enough with the ones you have. you need to make a plan for removing the defenders of a base,and capturing that base. you need to deploy those probe units en masse and you need way more air units. you need to capture the WP at least!

is the WP the weather paradigm?

[Kataphraktoi]

yes,its in one of the captured gaian bases on mount planet. although youll also need 3-4 formers per every base you have to make use of it.boreholes,raising land,forests etc etc

[d=me]

You mean in my game? I thought that the WP is not important. And doesn't having too many borholes cause sea levels to rise and many of your bases to turn into sea bases?

And I don't want to pay for the support of too many units. Then secret projects become very hard to do. And if the bases are building units instead of research facilities then I wouldn't be so ahead in tech.

And why do I need 3 to 4 formers per base? I thought that I had enough formers already. And I automate the formers.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by d=me
. And I automate the formers.

If you want to play well -- NEVER NEVER NEVER do this

The AI is idiotic with terraformers and the only time to use the automation is

1. as a challenge
2. when the game is won and you can't be bothered to spend time terraforming-- although personally I'd sooner disband soem formers than risk what an AI might do

[Kataphraktoi]

you need 3-4 formers per base,because after turning most tiles into forest,you want to make a dense pattern of boreholes.they arnt really going to make sea levels rise,by themselves.and you build projects with crawlers. you can cash these in,and upgrade them to cheaply buy SP. 1 borehole can support 6 formers and give mondo energy.besides that you might have clean reactors,in which case you cant have to many formers

you need to start raising land like mad to expand on.some condensers so your forested cities have food is good too. and dont automate your formers

[Chaunk]

The ONLY time I will automate formers is when the game is won, and then I set them to auto road, or auto magtube. I do not want a farm +solar on an arid flat tile with 450m elevation thank you!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by d=me


And I don't want to pay for the support of too many units. Then secret projects become very hard to do. And if the bases are building units instead of research facilities then I wouldn't be so ahead in tech.
.

Some example of wrong thinking here. Some extra early formers can make a mine or two and then put crawlers on them so the system supports itself. If you start building facilities or military too early without forming and crawling to increase your capacity, you will be behind versus a player that does this.

The formers will also work to increase your labs. Think about it---- for the cost of a research hospital you can build something like two formers and two crawlers. I know early which I would rather have-- Crawl minerals to build reserach facilities faster or crawl energy that goes through all your research enhancing stuff

[d=me]

So the terrain enchancements should be built first before the base enchancements? I always liked to let all of my base have all the advanced facilities after they are researched (ie, research hospital, fusion lab, hybird forest) as soon as possible. Like if your base doesn't have all of the facilities how can it expand and produce better tech?

[d=me]

What should I build? The solar collector or the mine with the farm? Or the forest?