How many of you are free marketeers?

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Lazerus




I didnt say FM factions were aggressive, later in the game they can be, but i said its usually planned/green who can wage all out war easier.

I didn't say that FM factions were aggressive either, I just said that FM wasn't as useful if aggressive. It's golden if you sit and wait while you build, but I can see where it would suck badly if you were on the attack.

When it's time for me to move out, I go green. Simply to get rid of FM's military hits. I no longer need anything at all from either planned or green at that point (pop boom? who needs it if you have Cloning Vats?) , I just need to get rid of the military hits.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by cal_01


Actually, I'm mostly a builder when possible.

Then go Free Market and Wealth. Hope that no one bothers you while you build, but if they do, form your army by using probe teams.

Number one rule that I have to keep reminding myself over and over again when playing a builder - spend the money. Never, ever, accumulate credits, because the only advantage to Free Market/Wealth is the strong infrastructure you can build, which gains you massive research and even more cash.

But only if you spend the money. As fast as you can make it.

OK, the cash has some value if attacked and IF you have probe teams. But that's easily factered in if it happens.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Lazerus
The easiest way to really bring FM crashing down to earth would be to have the pacifist drones appear at a random base rather then their home base. This would really force some problems such as a must SE switch in times of war and only the tiniest possible standing army allowed giving opponents a massive chance to strike and conquer before retaliation.
It seems rather daft that the drones only get annoyed at the prospect of troops from their own base fighting, its like people from x city not really caring that forces from another city in their own country are bombing somewhere in the world.

Nah, the size of the DEFENSIVE army isn't affected by FM at all, except for air units.

FM only hurts when I decide to move out or build air units.

[Lazerus]

I didn't say that FM factions were aggressive either, I just said that FM wasn't as useful if aggressive. It's golden if you sit and wait while you build, but I can see where it would suck badly if you were on the attack.

Why'd you pick out what i said then ? I said planned/green were normally aggressive hence logic FM is for the laid back builder.

army allowed giving opponents a massive chance to strike and conquer before retaliation.

Again you're misreading, the FM faction will not have a standing army thus counter attack is difficult. He can have as many defensive units as he likes (i know they don't create drones), the advantage normally lies with the attacker.

[Tommar]

I didn't pick you out, I simply replied to posts that interested me.

[Mart]

I voted banana. It really depends on circumstances. Often Free Market is not a good choice cause of planet rating and low police.

[CEO Aaron]

Originally posted by cal_01
And to make it clear, I'm not bashing FM or am I anti-FM. All I'm trying to do is provide a fair assessment of FM in contrast to the "pro-FM" posts and provide a somewhat detailed few of why FM has its pitfalls.

Originally posted by cal_01
So in summary (tl,dr for the ones that didn't want to read all this):

1. FM is inherently weaker in all stages of the game compared to other SE choices, even in peace-time.
2. FM is not a proactive SE choice, and will ultimately hurt your game.
3. You can't effective wars with FM.

I'm really having problems reconciling these two statements, Cal. Did someone else log in as you at one point in this thread?

[cal_01]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron




I'm really having problems reconciling these two statements, Cal. Did someone else log in as you at one point in this thread?

I don't see how those are anti-FM or FM bashing. There's a difference between being critical and... being insulting.

edit: And please, do not be condescending towards me when I have not done the same to you.

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Tommar


Then go Free Market and Wealth. Hope that no one bothers you while you build, but if they do, form your army by using probe teams.

Number one rule that I have to keep reminding myself over and over again when playing a builder - spend the money. Never, ever, accumulate credits, because the only advantage to Free Market/Wealth is the strong infrastructure you can build, which gains you massive research and even more cash.

But only if you spend the money. As fast as you can make it.

OK, the cash has some value if attacked and IF you have probe teams. But that's easily factered in if it happens.

I would point to Lazerus's post for certain points in reply to this post.

And, forming an army with probe teams, while certainly viable, is certainly less efficient than having a standing army in the first place. Furthermore, relying on probe teams isn't good in certain matchups (Miriam Fundie for example) nor are they completely dependable. At least with Planned, I can have 30+ Needlejets/Copters spread around multiple cities (whereas you need a city(s) with a PS and enough minerals to handle that many units and not hurt your overal labs rating) and any number of Conventional Missiles (in addition to Rovers etc) in my arsenal.

And in my Planned/Wealth (or Knowledge in some cases.. or maybe Green ), I usually have sufficient credits to sustain a builder playstyle. Having the pop-boom with Demo/Planned/Creche is definitely a nice advantage that I enjoy with builder, and the extra 10% minerals is great too. Plus, there's enough of a police rating for at least one 2xPolice unit.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Maniac
Oh yeah, since there's a high concentration of superFMers here, I'll ask a question:

Under FM in the early game, how do you deal with drones after you've crossed the bureaucracy limit, and bases already have their first citizen as a drone? (Edit: And you can't use the easy way out of building the HGP or PTS)

As Uni, I tend to complete the VW between 2125 and 2130, so I rarely even have to think about it. If I can't get it, or I'm not playing Uni, as was said earlier, just make Rec Commons a priority. By this point, you've likely already got enough credits to rush build a Rec. Commons every turn (Assuming 10 minerals of production already completed on each Rec. Commons of course), so you won't be hindered too much.

[cal_01]

Hmm. But Rec Commons only take out a few drones. What about the rest of them, especially in larger city sizes?

edit: Except for using Holo Theatres and PS. :P

[BlackCat]

With RC and VW I rarely has any drone riots except the period between cloning vats and Eudamonia, and after that - well, who cares

Maybe I don't have trouble since I prefer Demo/Plan/Wealth

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by cal_01
Hmm. But Rec Commons only take out a few drones. What about the rest of them, especially in larger city sizes?

edit: Except for using Holo Theatres and PS. :P

Well, avoid large cities for a while, favoring horizontal expansion. If needed, allocate a doctor when you reach size 3, and if you have enough bureaucracy, use two doctors at size 4. However, with most factions, you shouldn't spend much time with many cities at size 4 - you should pop boom at least as far as size 5, when you can use productive specialists after the two citizens contented by a rec commons. Of course, the HGP, PTS, VW, and Lal's talents each would allow some additional drone control. If drones are out of hand under FM, switching to Planned for a while is entirely reasonable, since 4 citizens under Planned are more productive than 2 citizens under FM.

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory


Well, avoid large cities for a while, favoring horizontal expansion. If needed, allocate a doctor when you reach size 3, and if you have enough bureaucracy, use two doctors at size 4. However, with most factions, you shouldn't spend much time with many cities at size 4 - you should pop boom at least as far as size 5, when you can use productive specialists after the two citizens contented by a rec commons. Of course, the HGP, PTS, VW, and Lal's talents each would allow some additional drone control. If drones are out of hand under FM, switching to Planned for a while is entirely reasonable, since 4 citizens under Planned are more productive than 2 citizens under FM.

I was under the presumption that a typical FM player would drop to Green instead of Planned if the drones got out of control..?

As for as expansion goes, I like to do both horizontal and vertical expansions simutaneously -- which is why I like Planned since it gives me the flexibility to build both facilities and population growth at the same time. That, and I'm a huge minerals fan.

Speaking of which, here's something for both FM and Planned players: would you favor WP first over drone-controlling SPs (such as HGP and VW) as the first SP? I tend to go WP first so I can build forests everywhere and help my minerals production.

[BlackCat]

WP for certain, but mostly to improve terraforming, secondly to get land raising ability.